Le Griffe: Looking back from a birds eye view

Doing interviews for quite a while now, I tend to believe that some things happen only when the time is right. I tried to do an interview with somebody from Le Griffe back in 2018, but it seemed no one was interested. When I decided to restart the blog earlier this year, I found the list of questions for Le Griffe members and decided to give it another shot. I also accidentaly found out that both Le Griffe's EPs were reissued via No Remorse Records. And you know what happened next? Robert Moseley, Le Griffe's ex-bass player and one of the founding members, came to the rescue! I tell you — timing is everything! So here we are remembering the early days of the Stock-on-Trent music scene and recording of the "Fast Bikes" EP. 

What comes to you mind when you think about England in the late 70’s? Was it an exciting time to grow up? Would you say that playing in a band was on. e of a few chances to break the daily routine?

The 70's were time when I was an engineer apprentice. A person could walk out of 1 engineering job and start at another. An apprentice earned very little money. The music scene was HUGE and collecting vinyl albums and spending (pre-apprentice) pocket money was always on your chosen bands albums. For me it was 1 band only — Black Sabbath. The place to watch world class bands was in our home town called Victoria Hall (Viccy Hall), where I watched my first live band Black Sabbath. My life changed that day. On my 13th birthday my father bought me a second hand Vox bass for £13.0 and I didn’t know what to do with it. I soon set my sights on a Rickenbacker 4001 stereo bass, and after a few years I bought it for £325. I played Victoria Hall a few times with Le Griffe and later on with No Favors, and on 1 gig (supporting Hawkwind), Lemmy's (Lemmy was from Stoke) roadie inquired about buying my bass. These were exciting times when the world’s finest came to play in our city. For a young teenager, then playing Viccy Hall was the dream that kept us going. We knew nothing about gigs outside of Stoke, and little about playing the bigger cities of Manchester, London and Birmingham. 

What influenced you to start playing bass guitar? Who were some of your idols?

My Influences were Black Sabbath, their music and image. Also Grand Funk Railroad, Status Quo, Nazareth etc. The street where I lived (Dency Grove), had two friends who loved the same music. I could go to one house and listen to Yes, ELP, Focus etc., then across the road to Jethro Tull, Tyrannosaurus Rex and Deep Purple. Geezer Butler, Mel Schacher and Roger Glover (in that order) were the bassists who I looked up to. The 1st song I ever learned was called "Love Like a Man" by Ten Years After.

Stock-On-Trent gave birth to a lot of talented bands like Predator, Reincarnate (read the interview here), Expozer as well as some hardcore and punk acts like Discharge. Why didn’t this city become as big as Birmingham or London in terms of rock scene?

I am great friends with Tezz from Discharge (he lives in my town of Biddulph). I also know Expozer (then Pozer) — Tim Bedson, the drummer, joined No Favors for a short time in the 90's, Harrier, etc. I bought my bass rig from Chris Ellis of the band Demon — Chris passed away recently in Australia. I'm not sure why we never had a № 1 rock act, but Individually, there is Lemmy, Slash, Robbie Williams (Take That pop band), but then there is Neil Ogden’s Demon (I played onstage with Neil yesterday at Carl Ogden’s 65th Birthday party at the ELEVEN venue), son Sam Ogden who is in a band that is reaching this level called Static Dress (www.staticdress.com). Stoke is a huge city that a band can play for an entire career, and always find a new gig to play.

What are your best memories about the clubs and venues in the city back then? Were there a lot of places where young rockers could go and see bands and have a pint or two?

The gig to play in Stoke was a support slot at Viccy Hall. My first time was amazing, supporting Magnum with Le Griffe — playing my black Rickenbacker. I still have some pictures of this gig. When going to gigs my mates would go to the Local pubs (the Gaiety, Black Horse and the Star). Sometimes the night clubs would have top bands on. Led Zeppelin played at the Place nightclub in Hanley. Le Griffe supported Tank at Tiffanie’s Nightclub, Atomic Rooster at the Adulte Nightclub (but on the night Atomic Rooster didn't turn up, so we headlined). Many of my mates would go to a seaside resort called Blackpool (they have a smaller version of the Eiffel Tower called Blackpool Tower, which was 1,5 hours drive away). It is at a gig called Jenks bar (sometimes called "Mama and Papa Jenks"), that we would watch top bands do their pre-Tour warm-up gigs. Le Griffe eventually got a weekend booking here and this was the most nervous I have ever been in my music career .

Robert Moseley's fast bike:
who needs a woman? 

Were you aware of what was going on in London in the late 70’s – early 80’s and the NWOBHM movement? How do you think what caused that musical explosion in a short period of time in one country? Was it a reaction to the deterioration of living conditions after Margaret Thatcher’s reforms?

I wasn't aware that the band that I had co-formed was placed in the NWOBHM category, and it was only a few years later that I found out that we were getting recognition. I felt that NWOBHM was mainly the “big bands” i.e.: Iron Maiden, Saxon etc. Punk rock was slowly fading out, so local musicians wrote music that was still “angry”, but with a more traditional and tuneful vocal and chorus style. In my opinion it was a natural progression, and nothing to do with the after effects of Politics/Strikes /Miners Pickets etc. (except for its lyric content of course).

How did you get involved with Le Griffe?

The forming of Le Griffe happened when I joined Bacchus Plateau, and after about a year or so they split up (I'm not sure what exactly happened). Steve Corley (vocalist in BP) called me to ask if we could form a new band, so we advertised in the local paper (“Evening Sentinel”) and Martin Higgins (Allen), Chris Perkins (Hatton), and Paul Ibbs joined us. We started writing songs, and “Fast Bikes” was being vocally written, but not completely finished. Steve left at this time and I started to sing the words that we ALL wrote (downstairs in Burslem Town Hall and also in the Bulls Head pub in Burslem). We needed a band name, and Paul Ibbs came up with the Logo and Name Le Griffe as he was then working in printing etc. Le Griffe Version 1 was born. Me, Rob Moseley, on bass and lead vocals, Paul Ibbs on lead and rhythm guitar, Chris Hatton on lead and rhythm guitar, Martin Allen on drums. We had a friend (Woz, who lives in my same street now) and he build a PA system, we bought a van and off we went. A record deal with local company Bullet Records was done and we didn't look back.

Why did you decide to name the band in French? Did it cause some confusion back then?

Paul Ibbs named the band and we loved it. The bird of prey was a great logo. The local pub (near where we rehearsed) would welcome us after rehearsals with the saying “Here comes le group”. It was a fantastic time to be alive.

How could you describe relationships within the band and the band’s dynamic? Who was the main songwriter in the band? Who was the responsible guy, who was the troublemaker etc.?

The relationships within the band were fantastic, up until the release of “Fast Bikes”. I do reflect on these days and now regret my decision to leave. Me and Paul left for two reasons. My main reason was that I wanted the music to take the HEAVIER route, following Iron Maiden/Sabbath etc., whilst some of the band wanted a more lighter/commercial sound. The rest of the band wanted me and Paul to quit our jobs (Paul had a young family and I was an engineering apprentice studying in the day and night). I sometimes think that I should have just taken that chance and pack my job in, but I feel that my parents wouldn't have approved — in those days. Paul Ibbs, myself and Chris were the main songwriters, but everyone contributed in some way. Paul Ibbs and Chris were the most responsible, and me and Martin and then Woody (when he joined) were the nutters in the band.

By the way, why did Chris Perkins and Martin Higgins used last names Hatton and Allen?

I’m not sure why Chris and Martin changed their second names, I suppose that is just sounded that little bit more “metal”!

“Who’s Kidding Who” demo is very hard to find. Do you or anyone from the band have the tape or a copy? Why wasn’t it included in the Eps’ reissue which came out earlier this year? How can you describe that early material like “Who’s Kidding Who”?

“Who's Kidding Who” was Chris's first change in direction and his song (vocally). It first came about when Chris started playing the riff on his Ibanez Destroyer and it didn't suit my vocal style. I realized that this was going to be the future, so talked to the band about getting a REAL top frontman/vocalist to sing this kind of song (my voice was very like Geddy Lee and Burke Shelley of Budgie) . We advertised and had many auditions, but we weren't happy with anyone, so Chris stepped in and took over. I loved this because I could do the high backing vocals. All was well. I don’t have a recorded version of this song.

Why did Paul Ibbs and Steve Corley leave the band in 1981—1982? Would you say that was a loss for the band or were Paul Wood and Tim Blackwood better musicians? 

Steve Corley never was in Le Griffe, when he left the band (which didn't have a name), I took over vocals. Myself and Paul Ibbs left at the same time — it was just after “Fast Bikes” was recorded as I mentioned it earlier.

Bullet Records was a local company from Stock and I guess that was pretty natural to sign with them. Did they really push the band forward and helped you to get airplays or supporting slots? Did you play enough shows back then?

Le Griffe were being approached by local gigs before the “Fast Bikes” record was released and we also did our own bookings. We were contacted by the local ticket shop (Mike Lloyds Music in Hanley) when a support slot for top bands became available. Also, we were regulars on BBC radio Stoke and did gigs with Bruno Brookes (Local radio DJ and disco owner) who eventually went on the country’s biggest radio station — Radio1. I can’t comment of after we left, but Bullet weren't a big factor in our gigging bookings in those days. We were playing regular and getting increasingly bigger crowds.

Did you use the gap between the demo and “Fast Bikes” EP to improve your songwriting and playing abilities?

We all spent hours rehearsing, both at home and in the Burslem Town Hall basement. I seem to remember that Bullet watched us play and maybe had us doing a cassette  recording of “Fast Bikes” and they saw something marketable in that track.

Сould you tell me please everything you can recall about the recording of the EP “Fast Bikes”? Did it take long to record the songs? Was the Strawberry Studio well equipped and was Martin Lawrence a competent producer and a good bloke to work with? Why weren’t you credited on the EP?

Myself and Paul weren’t credited as the co-songwriters, and THAT still disappoints me to this day. I think it was because we left, that they cut us out of that part. We enjoyed recording at Strawberry and it was superbly kitted out. I played on 10cc's piano and drum kit, so that was a thrill. I think that it took us two days to record. There was VHS videos to watch in the lounge area after our parts were done, and a fantastic pub across the road, with great beer.

I guess that the red cover of the EP was a result of a small budget you had but did you have other ideas for the cover? Is it true that the EP sold in a pretty decent quantity back then? Was it well received by the press and did any major label show some interest in you?

Myself and Paul Ibbs weren’t involved with the actual production of the “Fast Bikes” vinyl. I love the package and we did get a small mention on the back cover. The Eagles Claw logo (that Paul designed) was fantastic and looked great. I did hear that Bullet tried to get a major label interested in signing Le Griffe (version 3 onwards), but this never happened.

Did you play enough shows in support of your releases? Did you have a chance to tour properly or play in support of bigger bands? What are some of your favourite stories from touring/playing live?

We weren't in Le Griffe, when it was finally released, so I cant comment. We did go to watch them and I was happy that they were doing ok. The Blackpool gigs and Waggon and Horses (in Meir Stoke-on-Trent) were our favourite places to play, also the Talbot in Stoke. There would be queues to get in to see us. Times were great.

You already mentioned that you quit due creative differences, Could you tell me more on that matter?

The musical direction was troubling me, but Chris was writing good songs, but maybe a bit too commercial for me. I wanted to be fast and heavy like my re-recording/writing of “Dead On Arrival“. I never heard any new material from Le Griffe from the day that we left until they finally walked away. I think that the songwriting team that was the basis of ALL the recording wasn't there anymore .

“Breathe Deeply” and “Silent Running” from the first demo were re-recorded for “Breaking Strain” EP. Were you OK with that and did you like the result?

Chris wrote the words to “Breathe Deeply” and Paul Ibbs played a huge part in the music. We played it many times live. “Silent Running” was mine, I wrote it on a bus journey from Congleton to Burslem rehearsal rooms. I would have recorded this MUCH heavier and I do have a new vocal for the middle section, that I would like to re-record with Paul Ibbs one day (in my studio DriveStudios) .

After Le Griffe you joined forces with the Ogden brothers in No Favors. Unfortunately I have zero knowledge about the band, so it would be very interesting to learn more about the band and its achievements! Could you remember some funny or odd stories about rehearsing and touring with No Favors? Did you record anything with them?

It was a year or so before I met with Neil and Carl Ogden. I joined a band with Pozer/Expozer musician Tim Bedson and gigged in Stoke. I joined No Favors and started to enjoy life again. We gigged with Saxon, Georgia Sattelites, Magnum (two more times), FM, Hawkwind etc. I ended up in hospital on one Boxing day gig at “Shelleys” in Stoke, after I and guitarist Carl Ogden decided to each climb a PA stack on either side of the stage (this became our party piece, as the song was called "Party"). But I decided to jump off over four meters of PA speaker (whilst playing my bass),,, and I landed SOLID on my feet. I managed to finish the song but couldn't walk to the van afterwards and left a note to my parents (at the top of the stairs — when I finally got home), to tell them that “I had done it again” and could they take me to hospital the next morning. I spent two weeks on crutches with badly bruised feet, haha. This injury turned into serious back pain over the years, so it’s not so funny now. I co-built a HUGE drum frame/cage that had steps up each side. It was made of “tubular steel“ and very heavy to assemble. We played Bogeys тightclub in Cardiff (Wales) and I climbed to the top of the drum from, then fell down the steps with blood pouring out of my ripped stage trousers, ha-ha… It must have looked great.

 

No Favors

You also had bands with ex-Le Griffe mates: To What End with Paul Wood and Breaking Chain with Paul Ibbs. What kind of music did you play with these bands? Are they still active?

To What End was a metal project. We did a few recordings, a mini CD album and video, but it never got an official release. Breaking Chain was just a recording band with songs that I recorded here (I wasn't a very good engineer in those days, as I was learning by my mistakes). I joined the John Angus Blues Band and made an album with them and playing the blues has turned me into a much better bassist. My bass gear has hugely Improved and I have finally found my bass sound. It’s awesome and Very LOUD.

You told me that you tried to resurrect Le Griffe but some original members weren’t interested. First off, what was the purpose? Did you have offers from some promoters?

I wanted to reform Le Griffe, when interest was shown, after I posted an old pic of Le Griffe (Version 1) on Facebook after finding it in a box in my garage. I went to look for some more pictures and returned 1 hour later to find messages from across the world: Japan, Brazil, Italy, the USA. I was astonished to find that people across the world had heard of Le Griffe and one lady had a Le Griffe t-shirt. Neil Ogden wants to play in this band if I ever get to reform Le Griffe, but it will be with only two original members, which is a shame. Chris Papadatos (No Remorse Records in Athens), who I am visting this weekend (8^th May), would have been interested if the original singer on “Fast Bikes” (Chris Perkins-Hatton) was doing the vocals.

And secondly, who wasn’t interested and why?

Matrtin and Chris aren't interested. They both hate the music business, and Martin isn’t very well, and woody is unavailable, so there is only me and Paul Ibbs really.

As I mentioned, “Fast Bikes” and “Breaking Strain” were reissued by No Remorse Records earlier this year. How did this become possible? Did it take long to find the tapes, remaster them and so on?

I had a Facebook message from Ivan Obrey (Bullet Records), who's my friend, saying a Greek record company has enquired about the re-issue. Chris Papadatos eventually contacted me and we worked together. I did ALL the work regarding the forward and history of Le Griffe and only Chris sent some pictures. I'm very proud of what I’ve achieved. The original masters haven’t been located. There are local rumors on who has/had them, but Chris had to record them off the Vinyl, then remaster them after that. I think my recording and rearranging of “Dead on Arrival” is great, especially as I played all the instruments, recorded it and mastered it here.

When was “Dead on Arrival” (a bonus track on the re-issue) recorded? Why wasn’t it released back then?  

“Dead on Arrival” was a track that was recorded at Bumble Studios in Stoke. It was my first^t ever recording and I sang and played bass on it (Le Griffe version 1) . I was asked by the studio boss Barry Cartlidge, “What is the song about?” I answered, “I'm not sure, the words just fitted along with the chorus”. I re-wrote the vocal story in my new version to give the song a more positive feel, as many of the songs in those days were nuclear war fallout themed. I don’t know if anyone has any copies of this original recording, or later ones before “Fast Bikes” which were recorded in a studio in Market Drayton. A LONG Long time ago, haha.

What you are up these days? Do you still play and record music?

I play bass and backing vocals in a local pub band called Razed-on-Radio. Were a female fronted blues/rock band and I love it. I also sing in Biddulph Male voice choir, which is the hardest music project I’ve ever done. The Choir is 100 years old this year and I'm the only choir member who is an active musician on the local gig scene, who can't read music. I have been approached recently by 2 local bands on their second albums to join them, but I have refused as too busy being a grandad too. I still do recordings and NEVER charge anyone. I make the “INTRO” tapes for bands in my studio. I would say that I'm playing the best bass of my life.

Thanks to Paul Wood for making this interview possible!