Friday 28 December 2018

Graham Collett (ex-Lionsheart): "You have to make music people want to hear!"



When I think about bands that emerged in a wrong time the name Lionsheart comes to my mind among the first ones. Their debut album “Lionsheart” (1992) was such a great collection of top-class songs. It had everything to become a hit (and it did in certain countries) and should sell in millions of copies (which it unfortunately didn’t). The band always consisted of great musicians but there were two gentlemen — Steve Grimmett and Graham Collett — who remained permanent members of the band during the 90’s and recorded three studio albums. I guess that the band suffered from those line-up changes as much as they did from lacking of label support and Grunge invasion.
I contacted Graham to cover the story of Lionsheart and he turned to be such an incredible storyteller — witty, smart and fun. Have a good read, folks!
 
Hello, Graham! Tell me, please, about your very first steps in music. At what age did you start playing keyboards and join your first band?
Hi, I'm guessing my first steps in music are not quite what you expect. Although I played keyboards with Lionsheart I've always been, and still am, a guitarist. My brother gave me my first guitar for my 14th birthday, an unbranded acoustic with an action so high you could drive a bus between the fretboard and strings, but I became totally obsessed. All my waking hours were spent learning to play it. Around six months later I had built myself an electric guitar from an old mahogany table — If I’m honest, it sounded and played like a mahogany table — and joined my first band, playing bars and clubs that I was too young to be allowed into. Having left school and somehow bluffing my way into my first job, I blew my first year's wages on a Gibson Les Paul Custom that I happened to see in a local music shop. Those things were unheard of in the UK at the time and I had to beg the sales assistant to let me try it, just so I could tell my friends I’d played a real Gibson. The sales assistant was reluctant to hand a Les Paul over to a spotty sixteen-year-old kid who looked like he couldn't afford to buy a coffee, let alone a Gibson, but as soon as I held it in my sweaty little hands I knew I could never go back to the mahogany table. The salesman warmed to me considerably when he realized there was serious commission to be made and I took the bus home clutching a Gibson Les Paul instead of the set of strings I’d originally walked into the shop to buy. Owning a decent guitar fueled my obsession even further and all these years later that Les Paul is still the only proper guitar I've ever felt the need to own.
Anyway, getting back to the question you actually asked me --- my involvement with keyboards happened many years later when a mutual friend introduced me to Mark Owers who, along with his brother Steve, had just split from Fury, a local band recently signed to Jet Records. Mark was looking to form a new band and was under the mistaken impression that I could play keyboards, most likely because he’d heard I was a trained piano tuner. Everybody assumes piano tuners are accomplished pianists --- NOT true! Now probably I should have told him I couldn't play keys but something was telling me I ought to give it a try. Mark left me a tape, (yes this was back in the days of cassette players), containing two Magnum covers and one original track and asked me to come up with ideas for the keys. The Magnum covers were easy because Mark Stanway, (Magnum’s keyboard player if you aren’t familiar with the band), had already done the hard work and I just needed to copy his keyboard parts. The original track was a bit more tricky! Luckily, Mark was busy for a few days and I had a week to work something out. Oh yes --- and to learn how to play keyboards!!
After borrowing a keyboard, I would wake up at 6:00 am every morning and practice until well after midnight. Luckily, I wasn't popular with my neighbours anyway so I wasn't in too much danger of losing friends. Several days, and as many bottles of Jack Daniels later, I was able manage a passable imitation of a competent keyboard player. When Mark called back to see what I had been up to he must have been reasonably impressed because he gave me the opportunity to become a founding member of what was later to become Lionsheart. The next couple of years was a pretty steep learning curve but I applied the same obsessive attitude toward keyboards as I had the guitar, somehow managing to develop the keyboard skills needed as I went along, hopefully without anyone realizing I was winging it.
I think you should ask me the next question before I send your readers into a coma!

As far as I understand, you and the Owers brothers had a long story before Lionsheart as you worked with the band After Hours. Is it correct? Tell me a bit of that stage of your career.
Yes, in fact it goes back even further than After Hours. I first came across Mark and Steve Owers in the early 80s when I was playing guitar in a local band. We were playing support to the Owers brother’s old band Fury. We arrived at the venue to find the doors locked. After hammering on the door for 15 minutes a friend of the band opened up and called out, “The support band’s here”. Steve Owers yelled back, “TELL THEM TO F*** OFF WE’RE NOT READY!!” After that I figured the relationship could only improve.
It was a couple of years later before that theory was put to the test and I finally got to team up with a somewhat more civilized Mark and Steve Owers. We eventually managed to land a recording deal and began recording under the name Tour-de-Force. Following personality clashes and disputes over publishing rights the band refused to continue working with Mark and Steve, a decision I'm pretty sure they came to regret. They chose the new band name After Hours which was a play on the words After Owers. I think that was a choice that would come back to haunt them.
The band assumed I would continue to work with them but it was clear to me that Mark and Steve were the driving force behind the band. I decided to stay with Mark and Steve even although it meant walking away from a new recording deal and an upcoming European tour. As time would tell, it turned out to be the right decision.

How did you get to know Steve Grimmett and what was your first impression about him and his musical ideas for Lionsheart? Was it something you wanted to play from your heart?
A mutual friend had hinted that we should approach Steve Grimmett but Steve was having huge success in the States with Grim Reaper so it didn’t seem a likely prospect. We were working with Mark Thompson-Smith at the time who later went on to sing with Praying Mantis. A change of direction towards bluesy rock didn't suit Mark Smith's voice but we were confident Steve Grimmett’s voice would fit perfectly. By this time Steve had begun working with Onslaught so it looked as though a union was still not to be. As luck would have it, Onslaught self-destructed towards the end of a tour and a meeting was hastily arranged between Steve and us.
The first thing that struck me about Steve was his huge personality. Steve is an incredibly likable character, always great fun to be with and not the kind of guy you could easily ignore at a party! It soon became clear that we were all on the same wavelength musically so we arranged to demo a few songs to get a feel of how things might go. Steve traveled 100 miles back to his hometown in Tewkesbury while the Owers brothers and I put some backing tracks together for three new songs Mark and Steve Owers had been working on. They were “Portrait”, “So Cold” and I think “Stealer”.
I couldn’t be there when Steve came along to record the vocal tracks but the first chance I had, I called in on Mark to check out the recording. The first up was “So Cold” and the instant I heard the vocal, the hairs stood up on the back of my neck! When I heard “Portrait” I knew something magical was happening, the energy created between Steve Grimmett and Mark and Steve Owers was breath taking. From that moment I had no doubt things were going to happen for the band.
As for Steve Grimmett’s ideas for Lionsheart, Steve is a world class singer by any standards with an awesome voice and massive stage presence, but the song writing and creativity in Lionsheart always came predominantly from Mark and Steve Owers. 
Was it something I wanted to do from the heart? ----- God yes! From that moment on I couldn’t imagine wanting to work with any other band.

The band got a deal with Music For Nations. Was it all up to Steve? Did you record any demos to shop them or play any showcases?
Even before Steve Grimmett joined the band, (he would probably say "before they became my backing band"), there had always been a lot of media and record company interest but we never seemed to get that elusive deal. Yeah, we played endless showcases and we must have demoed the first album five times over before a deal finally arrived. Music For Nations was one company that had been showing an interest. What we didn't realize is that the Japanese company Pony Canyon, — (no, I hadn’t heard of them either but believe me, they are HUGE!) — had been watching the band ever since we teamed up with Steve Grimmett and offered MFN a hefty licensing deal to allow a release in Japan. That made it a no-brainer for MFN as their profit was guaranteed. No, I don’t believe it was all up to Steve. His voice and reputation certainly played a major part in it and we know the Japanese had been keeping a close eye on him since Grim Reaper split, but for me, a large part of it was down to the chemistry between Steve’s incredible voice, Mark Owers’ mind-bending technical ability on the guitar and the Owers brother’s epic song writing.

Tell me about the songwriting process for the first album. Did you all have a chance to voice your opinion and offer something to arrangements?
The Owers brothers were extremely protective over the writing credits. They were aware that publishing, and to a lesser degree merchandise, is the source of virtually all income in music. They were undoubtedly responsible for the bulk of the writing but they tended to forget contributions other members might have made. They seemed happy enough for others to contribute toward the arrangements, although I suspect that was because arrangements don’t attract publishing royalties. At least, it never did in our band. As far as voicing opinions was concerned, Mark once told us: “This is a very democratic band. Everyone gives their opinion and then I tell them what to do”. Often, what Mark “told us to do” was precisely what we had already suggested but he tended to have a selective memory towards those things.
It’s worth mentioning that Mark bore a remarkable resemblance to Ritchie Blackmore. Not only in appearance, but also in temperament, ego and the fact there was always white Strat hung around his neck. Maybe you can see how Mark’s bands often suffered ego clashes. Personally, I didn’t have a great problem with his massive ego. For the most part I enjoyed working with Mark and Steve Owers and certainly no one could deny their talent.

The song “Portrait” has very interesting keyboard intro, although you weren’t credited as a writer. What influenced you to write it?
Nobody mentioned they wanted a keyboard intro to “Portrait” so I hadn’t prepared one. Mark sprung it on me one morning in the studio. When Mark asks someone to do something he doesn’t mean “do it in two minutes time”, he means “do it now!” I don’t know if you know, but “Portrait” is based on the book, “Picture of Dorian Gray”. The book has a supernatural theme so I thought the intro should have a slightly ominous, epic sound to match the feel of the story, perhaps sounding like the trailer for a movie. In fact, we originally added dialog from the book which, together with the orchestral samples did make the intro sound very much like a movie trailer. I was devastated when I discovered later that Mark had removed the voices. You can still make them out if you listen but those booming, theatrical voices had been reduced to barely a whisper. Despite that, I think the intro still introduces a degree of suspense and sets the song up with a slightly ominous, creepy atmosphere and that’s exactly what I’d hoped to achieve. Maybe not having much time to prepare helped make the intro more spontaneous. I don’t think it took more than ten minutes from Mark saying, “Do it NOW”, to laying down the final track.

Were you satisfied with your role in the band? Didn’t you want to have more space for your keyboards or contribute more to the songwriting?
People often ask me that. Lionsheart was never about the keyboards. I would have more opportunity during live shows to throw in embellishments and the odd solo. Let’s face it, how was anyone going to stop me in the middle of a show? But my job in Lionsheart was to add texture and atmospherics to the tracks and hopefully gel the whole thing together. I think I managed to do that, so yes, I was happy with my role. If the others were doing their job well, and they invariably were, I was happy to let them have the glory they deserved.
I did had a hand in scoring some of the big block harmonies Lionsheart was known for, but of course, that’s not something I would expect to be credited for. As far as contributing to the songwriting is concerned, I don’t think I was pushy enough to force my ideas through, although I possibly had more influence on many of the songs than the credits might suggest. Not in a major way, but in subtle ways that I hope made a difference. But that’s OK, if the job gets done it doesn’t matter who gets credit for it. I’ve never suffered from an inflated ego. Just as well, I doubt there would have been room to squeeze another ego into the control room!

Why did you decide to record Don Nix’s song “Going Down”?
You know what? I was kind of wondering that myself. The first I knew about it was when I walked into the studio one day and they had already recorded it. The publishers hated us including covers in our albums because they wouldn’t profit from it. I think that might be one of the main reasons we always did it!

What are your best memories about the recording of the first album? Was it a lot of fun or was there already a sign of a falling-out between Steve and the Owers brothers?
No, we were all great friends at that time. Despite the impression I might have given, Mark and Steve Owers were always great company and if you’re ever lucky enough to be in the presence of Steve Grimmett, well, you’re pretty much guaranteed a great time.
 The album was recorded at Black Barn which is a residential studio in Ripley, Surrey, just a short walk from the house where Eric Clapton was brought up by his grandmother --- just a bit of useless information you didn’t need to know. Once the work was finished for the day, the band and Robin Black, (producer/engineer), would go sit at the big table in the dining room where we would, in the words of Steve Grimmett, “Drink wine, eat cheese and bull-shit”. When I look back to our time in the studio, what I remember is a great bunch of friends, a holiday atmosphere and a sense of excitement of what was to come. Oh yeah ---- and I believe we did the occasional bit of recording.
To be honest, we had demoed that album so many times, both at home and in various studios, if we had set up our instruments in the studio and left the room I think the album would have recorded itself! Despite that, Mark would always be there pushing to perfect every tiny detail. Sure, he could be a slave driver but if anything, he was even more demanding of his own performances. He seemed to hear minuscule imperfections in his playing that others couldn't detect. It was tough a lot of the time, but when we left the control room in the evenings, we came out knowing we had given the best performance we were capable of. Also, we had a whole night of “cheese eating, wine drinking and bull-shitting” to look forward to!


The band did a video for “Can’t Believe” . Don’t you think that it was quite close to Whitesnake’s “Still Of The Night”? By the way, was this video instrumental in terms of promotion?
Close to Whitesnake? - Ahh, you noticed!
We were never allowed much input in the planning of promo videos. I don’t remember the name of the director but apparently, he was responsible for several big selling movies in Japan --- that’s possibly why I’d never heard of him before!  You would need to suffer severe hearing problems not to detect a heavy Whitesnake influence throughout the first Lionsheart album so I suppose the director took that into account while shooting the “Can’t Believe” vid but I must admit there are some glaring similarities between the two videos. (Except for the dog at the beginning of the Lionsheart vid ----no one could ever figure out why there should be a dog at the beginning of a Lionsheart video!)
I would say the “Can’t Believe” video was definitely crucial to the promotion of the first album in Japan. It received saturation airplay on Japanese TV a month before the album was released. The video along with relentless promotion from Masa Ito, who was almost certainly the biggest rock DJ/presenter in Japan at that time, probably accounts for the first album selling out within hours of hitting the shops and  keeping the new Bon Jovi album off the number one spot. That was something none of us had expected. Some years before, Steve Grimmett had become friends with Richie Sambora while playing the “Texas Jam” and it’s something Steve always likes to remind Ritchie of whenever the two meet up.

Why did the Owers brothers leave the band after just a pair of shows with Lillian Axe?
That’s a difficult one, it wouldn’t be fair of me to go into too much personal detail. Mark had been suffering a lot of stress and his health had been badly affected. The first leg of the tour began in the UK and continued into Europe. I could see Mark was struggling on the first couple of gigs, not in his performance, that was impeccable as always, but I knew he was becoming increasingly anxious at the prospect of touring Europe and I wasn’t sure that he would be able to go through with it. As it turned out, he didn’t even complete all the UK gigs.
I had a call as I was leaving for the next show to say that Mark had pulled out of the tour. Steve and Mark Owers had the strong bond that’s common between identical twins and Steve wasn’t prepared to continue without his brother so now we were without both a guitarist and a bass player. As far as I understand, Mark and Steve weren’t intending to permanently leave the band at that stage. Steve Grimmett, ever the optimist, said he was hoping to bring in a couple of replacements to get us through the European leg of the tour. With that being just a couple of days away, me being in Southampton and the rest of the band 600 miles away at the venue in Scotland, there didn’t seem much chance of pulling that off. I could feel it all slipping away. I think that was one of the most depressing nights of my life.

How did you manage to finish that tour eventually? I guess that was a very stressful situation!
Stressful is an understatement! If finding two musicians able to cover Mark and Steve Owers was going to be tough, finding musicians of that level who could learn a full set of new material, along with backing vocals, within 24 hours of beginning a European tour had to be impossible. Stuck at home in Southampton I’d resigned myself to the fact that Lionsheart was finally drawing its last breath. I was just breaking out the bourbon when Steve Grimmett called to say the tour was back on and could I meet them at the venue in time for the final UK show. It looked like Steve Grimmett’s eternal optimism had payed off. Of course, I still found time to drink the bourbon!
Steve had contacted Nick Burr who had been playing with Paul Di’anno. Nick lived near Steve Grimmett’s home town, Tewkesbury, and was already familiar with a lot of the Lionsheart material. Nick suggested a bass player, whose name I’m ashamed to say I’ve forgotten. I think it was Simon. He was playing in a funk band and never likely to become a full member of Lionsheart but Nick was confident he was competent enough to carry it off. He was certainly right about that.
An hour after the call, I arrived at the final UK show, played the gig — amazed to hear Nick and Simon breeze through the entire set faultlessly — climbed into my bunk on the tour bus and, after days of stress and sleepless nights, lost consciousness, (ok, the bourbon might have played a part in that), waking up somewhere in Belgium outside the venue of the first European gig. The tour went amazingly well under the circumstances. Nick and Simon did a great job and I couldn’t fault them, but somehow the magic had gone from Lionsheart and the truth is, it was never to return.

The addition of Nick Burr and Zak Bajjon should change the chemistry within the band. So what can you say about the atmosphere in the band during that period?
At that point my hope was that Mark Owers would be able to continue with Lionsheart. Both Steve and I tried to contact Mark after the tour in the hope that his condition had improved but, being in a bad way emotionally, he didn’t feel able to speak to us. We had a somewhat frosty reception from those who spoke on his behalf, the implication being that we had been disloyal by continuing the tour without him and his brother.
Several weeks later our manager called a meeting to discuss how we might go forward. When we all met up in a Gloucestershire pub Mark appeared to be much more his old self and the rapport between band members seemed to have returned to some degree, although I noticed Steve Grimmett was uncharacteristically quiet. Towards the end of the meeting things started to look promising when, without warning, Steve announced that he was no longer prepared to work with Mark and Steve Owers. Lionsheart continued for several more years after that night but, for me, that night marked the end of the band.
Nick kind of got the permanent Lionsheart gig by default after saving us from disaster in Europe. Zak ---- well that’s another story. The first I knew that Zak would replace Steve Owers was When Steve Grimmett called with details of an upcoming photo shoot and, “Oh, by the way our new bassist, Zak Bajjon will be there”.
The first meeting with Zak went well enough but it would be several weeks before we managed to pull together a rehearsal. Steve lived in Gloucestershire, Antony and I lived 100 miles away in Southampton and Zak lived 180 miles further north so rehearsals took some planning. Zak had been given a copy of the first album so he could come prepared. We launched into one of the easier songs and  well, I came close to crying. Now, I don’t want to be unkind but THE GUY COULDN’T PLAY BASS!! He had no sense of timing, he had no pick technique and when one of his strings slipped horrendously flat, he seemed blissfully unaware. Anthony Christmas (our drummer — and yes, that is his real name), and I could see no future working with Zak but Steve, still the eternal optimist, thought with work maybe things would work out. This time Steve’s optimism didn’t pay off.
Right, what was the question you actually asked me? Oh yeah, how did the lineup change affect the chemistry in the band? Well it didn’t so much change the chemistry as bring it to an end. Don’t get me wrong, Nick is a great guy to be with, immensely funny and without question someone you would want with you on tour and in the studio. His competence as a musician and songwriter was never in question. The problem is, most guitarists would struggle to live in the shadow of Mark Owers and that’s exactly what was being asked of Nick. On a personal level Zak could be entertaining (not always intentionally and almost never for the right reasons) but having worked with such an amazing bunch of musicians it was hard to find myself playing alongside someone I felt was just not up to a professional level.
    

The band also supported Magnum. Did you like that experience? Did they treat Lionsheart well?
Yes, I’ve given a bleak vision of the future after the split with the Owers brothers but there were plenty of good times still on the horizon nevertheless. The Magnum tour was one of them for sure. I always had huge respect for the band and was totally blown away when news got to me that we would support their UK tour.
From the start we were treated as equals rather than merely the support act. Tony Clarkin was a lot more down to earth than I imagined (his songs always suggested he would be an arty, cerebral sort of person --- man, was I wrong about that!)  He kept us all supplied with drinks at the bar on our first night and refused to take any in return. We were treated unbelievably well by the band and their management and allowed unrestricted access to the full sound system and light rig, something almost unheard of on the rock circuit. We ended the tour as great friends. Of course, the best part was the privilege of watching Magnum perform each night. No self-indulgent, screaming guitar or impossible vocal acrobatics, but what an unbelievably tight, professional band!  
The only “downer” on the tour was when Zak got himself into a fight with one of the caterers and broke two fingers on his left hand. Life was never dull with Zak Bajjon in the band. When we picked him up from the hospital Zak decided he would continue with the remaining shows --- assuming he hadn’t already got us kicked off the tour that is. The only slight problem being of course, that he had two broken fingers on his fret playing hand and had to play the bass using only his index finger. Now for most players that would be a disaster but with Zak’s playing, well, to be honest, it didn’t make a lot of difference. Now, one of the best pieces of advice I’ve ever been given is; “Never upset the caterers”. Zak wouldn’t allow another morsel of food pass his lips for the remainder of that tour for fear of what the caterer might have done to his food --- (“Special sauce with that sir?”)
We picked up a lot of followers from the Magnum tour and that lifted our profile enormously in the UK. We will always be grateful to the guys in Magnum for that.

Around that time you toured Japan where the album “Lionsheart” was a number one, so I guess the band was praised as super-stars there. What are your best memories about the tour and the country? Any special stories from backstage, hehe?
The tour was our second visit to Japan. We had traveled to Tokyo three months before to shoot the “Can’t Believe” video and both trips were pretty amazing experiences. As usual we’d had no information at all from the record company, other than the fact the album was to be released in Japan and we were flying to Tokyo to shoot a promo video. The first clue that something major was happening was when we arrived at Heathrow airport and a group of Japanese students ran over and asked for autographs. We obviously assumed they’d mistaken us for another band but we signed anyway and they seemed happy enough.
When we arrived in Tokyo we began to suspect the Japanese record company had also mistaken us for another band! We were expecting to be put up in a dodgy hotel on the outskirts of the city or maybe one of those “capsule hotels” you only find in Japan, so when were taken to one of the top Tokyo hotels with a crowd of fans outside waiting for autographs, we began to realize there was more going on than MFN had been letting on. I think they were worried we would have negotiated a tougher deal had we realized the buzz that was being created around Lionsheart in Japan. They would have been right about that!
When we got to the video shoot the following morning the set looked like something taken straight out of “Robocop”. There were cameras swooping down from hydraulic cranes, hospitality trailers, mobile wardrobe and makeup units and a catering team that could have kept the population of a small town overfed. It’s a shame we were all fighting massive hangovers after the record company had taken us for a night out in Tokyo the day before or we might have been in a state to enjoy it. Speaking of that night out in Tokyo, after we had got back back to the hotel Steve and Zak decided to go out and blow the rest of their daily allowance in the Roppongi bars. Three hours later they came back with more money than they went out with. We never did get to the bottom of that one!
 If the video trip was amazing, the return to Tokyo a few months later to begin the Japanese tour was beyond anything we could have hoped for. The promotion machine had really kicked in by then and there were hoards of fans at every signing event and every club we went to. For the first time in my life I enjoyed the novelty of a night of free drinks at the ‘Tokyo Hard Rock Cafe’ and pretty much every other club we visited.
Japan is an incredible country and you can expect to be treated like royalty in every shop, restaurant or hotel you visit. That sort of reception is reserved for everyone, not just some lucky punks who were lucky enough have an undeserved number one album. Of course if you do have a number one album it goes a long way with the stunning Japanese women who have a reputation for being — how can I put this — quite, er, obliging with Western men.
I might have to disappoint you with the backstage stories. I met my future wife in the middle of that tour and she wasn’t letting anybody near me. Mind you, she didn’t travel with us to Osaka.

How do you view the live album “Rising Sons”? Don’t you think it would be better to put it on a shelve considering its poor sound quality?
Ah yes, the “Rising Sons” album. I didn’t even know it existed until some weeks after its release, mostly because a member of the band — I won’t mention any names here — didn’t think there was a need to share the royalties with me. Had I known, I would have done all I could to keep it buried. It was clearly a bootleg and judging by the low level of the backline I would guess it had been recorded directly from a direct out on the “front of house” mixer. I’ve a strong suspicion who was responsible for the recording but, being conscious of libel laws, I’d best leave it at that. The whole thing was an embarrassment and I can only apologize to anyone who bought it.

I used to read that “Pride In Tact” was produced by Steve Harris of Iron Maiden which is not true, I guess. Tell me please about where the album was recorded and who produced it. How can you compare the recording of the album “Pride In Tact” to the first one? Which album out of these two is your favorite in terms of working process?
We recorded “Pride in Tact” at “The Manor”, a residential studio near Oxford that I believe was owned by Richard Branson. You are partly right. “Pride In Tact” was produced by Steve Harris but not the Steve Harris of Iron Maiden. Steve Harris (or Stephen Harris as he prefers to be called these days) was a highly regarded, young engineer who was just breaking into production and has since achieved considerable success in the production world. — OK, that’s the plug over with for ‘tephen Harris Productions!
Working on “Pride In Tact” was a very different experience to the first album. I missed the disciplined structure that came with working with Mark Owers. Mark always had a strong vision of where things should go and how best to get there. That could have been annoying were he not invariably proved right. “Pride in Tact” was a more relaxed process but the whole project lacked leadership. It seemed to me the album didn’t have the energy and epic feel of the first album. It felt lazy and safe. We had also lost Lionsheart’s main song writing talent and the songs on ‘Pride In Tact’ were no match for the material produced by the Owers brothers.


The band also shot a video for “Déjà Vu”, while my personal favorite out of the album is “I Believe In Love”.  Which song off the album would be your choice to promote “Pride In Tact”?
I think I would agree that “I Believe In Love” is a better choice of single than “Déjà vu” although the record company believed there was no obvious single on that album and I would have to agree. My favourite song from that album is probably “Who’s The Wise Man” which was written by Nick Burr for his sister. Great song in my opinion but it was never likely to be picked as a single.

You did a tour with Tyketto in support of “Pride In Tact” and by that time rock scene completely changed. Was the tour well attended? Can you recall anything significant from that tour?
Surprisingly, the venues were extremely well attended. Tyketto had recently lost their deal with the mighty Geffen due to the rock scene becoming decidedly heavier but it seems no one had told that to the fans in Europe. No one appears to have told the groupies that either — yes, they still existed in Europe then. Now, Lionsheart were never the best-looking band in the world so I didn’t expect the attention we were getting from the women hanging around the venues. It didn’t take too long to realize that what they were hoping for was a chance to get backstage and be introduced to Tyketto’s Brooke St. James. Ah well, glad to have been of service.
Now I’ve got to say, we played some dodgy venues in Germany but none as dodgy as the last show of the tour in Stuttgart. It was a lot rowdier than the other gigs and the barmaids, all dressed in tight fitting leather outfits, seemed a lot friendlier than you would expect. After the show the owner said there were no showers at the venue but he would take us to his other business where there were bathing facilities. When we arrived, we realized his other business was a brothel. The girls were still there although not working. The band took a shower and headed into the giant jacuzzi to relax. Well, it would have been relaxing had Steve Grimmett not suddenly thundered out from the changing room, launched himself into the air and belly flopped into the jacuzzi. Anyone who has seen Steve close up will know he’s a BIG guy and when he hit the surface, the pool was pretty much emptied of water. Drinks were free for the night so my memory of what happened after that is a bit flaky. At least, that’s the story I gave my wife and I don’t plan to change it now!


After that tour the band was put on hold. Why was that? What did you do between the second and the third albums? Did you play with other bands to feed your family?
Well, the delay wasn’t a conscious decision. Steve and I were keen to use the recording budget for the third album to build our own studio. That would give us unlimited studio time and leave us with a permanent recording facility for the future. Incredibly, Music For Nations agreed to the plan! To Steve and I it seemed an obvious move but the idea was met with a fair amount of resistance from Nick and Zak. Now Steve and I were the only original Lionsheart members, consequently we were the only two signed to MFN so technically we were in control of the advance money. After a lot of soul searching we decided to pull rank and take on the studio project ourselves with no involvement from Nick or Zak.
The studio was a huge project for us with recording facilities on two floors and a large rehearsal/pre-production studio, taking over a year to complete. With the studio finally operational we arranged a session to begin writing/demoing new material for the third album. Thirty minutes into the session Nick left as he had other things to take care of. This turned out to be a regular occurrence and eventually we took the difficult decision to replace Nick. Zak’s appearances were becoming increasingly rare and when he did eventually grace us with his presence, he put down one unusable bass track, took his share of the record advance and drove home to Harrogate never to be seen again. So, here we were, already one year behind schedule before the first song had even been written, and once more without a guitarist and bass player.
The album did finally get recorded and our plan to let the studio as a commercial concern is really what helped me survive financially. Unfortunately, after such a mammoth gap between the second and third album momentum was lost and Lionsheart’s future was beginning to look precarious.

Lionsheart always suffered from line-up changes. Do you agree that stable line-up would help Lionsheart more that the band really did?
Absolutely! Had we been able to maintain the original lineup I’m convinced the first album would have been followed up with at least two more killer albums. Of course, it would have led to other problems, not least of all, could the Owers brothers ever have been persuaded to join a world tour? I guess we’ll never know.

By the way, you were the longest staying member after Steve. What was your secret? Did you just play keyboards not bothering yourself with anything else?
Yeah, pretty much. I just kept my head down and got on with it. My lack of ego and the fact I wasn’t constantly getting into fights over the publishing probably helped. Maybe I didn’t get fired because the rest of the band hadn’t even realized I was there!

What’s your opinion about “Under Fire”? How was it to work with Brook St. James?
Well, like I said, the recording of “Under Fire” was beset with problems from the beginning. First falling a year behind schedule during the construction of the studio, then finding ourselves short of two band members. Pulling in Brooke St James from Tyketto seemed the easiest and quickest solution. We got on well with him on the Tyketto tour and thought he would slot in effortlessly. Musically he did, but what we hadn’t realized is that American players tend to be businessmen first and musicians second. The only way we could finance his financial demands was to name him as the producer so that he could claim a producer’s fee from MFN. Unfortunately, Brooke took that to mean that he actually was the producer and insisted that the completed album be sent to Minneapolis so he could remix it and oversee the mastering. That should have taken a week to complete but we began to suspect things were not going well when, after two months, we still hadn’t received a copy of the final master. I can only assume that Brooke has had little or no experience of mastering because when it finally came back to us Steve and I just sat in the control room with our heads in our hands. Being already hopelessly behind schedule and over budget meant the album had to be put out as it was. 
That’s a great shame because I think there were some good songs on that album that were destroyed in the re-mix and disastrous mastering. 

What happened after the release of the third album? Steve mentioned that the band had some issues with Music For Nations.
We had always had issues with Music For Nations. There had been barely any promotion in Europe for the first album and it seemed MFN were happy to sit back and make their profit from the licensing deal with Pony Canyon in Japan. The Japanese company did an incredible job of promoting us in Japan and I know they would have liked to sign Lionsheart directly but we were already tied to a three-album deal with MFN. When the second album was released our manager, not expecting much action from Music For Nations, decided to promote it himself in Europe and the UK and that increased domestic sales significantly. Had MFN put in the resources from the beginning I think our profile would have been much higher in Europe. There was also some — how can I put this politely — “creative accountancy” concerning the shooting of the ‘Déjà Vu’ video but I’d best not go into too much detail about that.
If I’m honest, we weren’t entirely blameless for the poor relationship. I’ve already spoken of the problems within the band, our inability to keep a stable lineup and our tendency to run over-budget on all but the first album. We certainly caused headaches for the record company although, even if that hadn’t been the case, I doubt they would have shown any more commitment. When we finished the last album there was never any likelihood that either Lionsheart or MFN would consider signing up to a new deal.

Tell me please about your career after Lionsheart. I know you were in Seven Deadly Sins with Steve but that’s all. Do you still play with any band? Do you stay in touch with Steve, The Owers Brothers or Nick Burr?
Once we were free of MFN, Steve and I decided it was time to bring Lionsheart to an end and a new band, Seven Deadly Sins was formed. Given that Steve and I still owned the studio we should have been in a good position to record the album ourselves and search for a distribution deal.
This is where it all began to fall apart, for me at least. Steve Grimmett and the new guitarist became strong friends and I felt myself being pushed out of the decision making and creative aspects within the band. Being a founder member, not to mention owning fifty percent of the studio the album was to be recorded in, I wasn’t especially happy with that. More to the point, I wasn’t happy with the direction the band was heading and decided to walk away from it.
Having become so disillusioned with the music business I decided to make a complete break, moved to Tokyo and made a living through commercial graphics and web design. Since returning to London, (thanks to the nine-magnitude earthquake and tsunami that tore large swathes of Japan apart in 2011), I’ve played guitar with a few bands but it’s strictly a hobby, albeit a reasonably lucrative one. It was a great experience playing two thousand seat halls and major open-air concerts and I feel privileged to have had the opportunity to do It but now I’m happy to leave those days behind me.
There were never really any hard feelings, at least, not on my part. I’ve bumped into Nick Bur a couple of times and was pleased to see him hear what he’s up to. I’ve had some contact with Steve Grimmett on Facebook, although, the last time I looked I was no longer on his friend list so I’m guessing I’ve maybe fallen out of favour.  

What lessons did you learn from your time with Lionsheart?
They were hard lessons generally! Mostly, lessons about human nature and how quickly people’s attitudes and actions can be affected when money suddenly enters the equation. When a band first comes together it’s usually a group of friends just wanting to make great music and have a good time, (Well — maybe not always in that order!) Those friendships are soon tested when they find themselves with a recording deal and a degree of success and unfortunately, too many bands are torn apart as members get into disputes over publishing rights. Anyone not credited with writing will have to survive solely on record advances and merchandise sales which means a single band can consist of both millionaires and paupers. It’s no coincidence that bands who manage to stay together and keep a steady lineup are generally those who share the publishing to some degree, regardless of who was credited with the writing.
Musically, I learned a lot in the early days of Lionsheart. When you are playing along side great musicians you begin to absorb the creativity and sense of professionalism that constantly pervades your environment. I think that’s the reason I struggled to accept one or two of the later members who lacked those qualities.
I also learned a little of how the music business works. When we first landed our record deal with MFN a lot of local bands would ask me the secret of getting signed and how should they approach the A&R departments. The “secret” is easy. It isn’t about how to get your demos heard by record companies, what kind of demos you should send or how many tracks you should include. The “secret” is far more simple. The “secret” is; you have to make music people want to hear! That might seem painfully obvious but it’s THE most important requirement of landing a deal, yet it’s often the part that’s overlooked by hopeful bands. Forget the record and publishing companies. Just concentrate on producing great music that people want. If you can do that, the record companies will find you. So the ‘secret’ is simple, unfortunately, achieving it is not to simple! 

Please say a few words to your fans and anyone who reads this interview.
I can probably say it in just two words. “Thank you!”
But as you’ve probably realized by now, I’m not going to leave it at two words!
Being a part of Lionsheart was a roller coaster ride from beginning to end, but no matter how difficult things might have been at times, there was always a hard core of fans who stuck by us, even although we sometimes made bad decisions and let you down. For all the difficult times, playing with Lionsheart was an amazing experience and the fans were the largest part in making that happen. That’s something I will always appreciate.
Probably I should have left it with just those two words, so  Thank you!

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