There is always a good story between the dates of birth and death on a gravestone. Yours truly pretends to be a philosopher... But there is a lot of truth in these words, and the following interview proves it. Taurus. Of course you remeber these guys and their hit "Paper Chaser"! They did all the nesessary things for a NWOBHM band: toured hard, played at the Marquee, appeared in the Friday Rock Show and on the pages of Sounds and Kerrang. What else? Oh yes, they sank after a few years and never managed to release an EP, not saying an LP. But yet they have a lot of stories to share and a lot of things to be proud of. The drummer Hugh McGouran remembers the good times!
A worn-out question, but
how did you start playing drums? Were your family into music? And why drums?
I came very late to playing music, I never thought it was for me. My
family were singers and performers, and I always said that no one would ever
get me onto a stage!! I wanted to be a photojournalist and had planned to study
this in London in 1978. I had been having some problems with my sight and a
visit to an optometrist revealed a significant problem. The optometrist, in an
attempt to calm a worried 15 year old, asked what I wanted to be when I left
school. I replied that I dreamt of being a photographer and he instantly
responded by telling me to give that dream up immediately. I was gutted, but in
those days a young kid did as he was told by {small minded} professionals. I
was a huge fan of rock and prog and was an avid reader of the music press. I
remember seeing a photo of Ian Paice, who wore what looked like thick specs,
and I thought “drums? Now that's an idea” and the rest is history. I found an
old Premier kit for sale at £100, sold all my photography kit and borrowed the
£13 I was short of from my dad, and bought the kit. I was totally self-taught,
which was a mistake in hindsight, I had been hammering away in the garage for a
week or so, and there was a knock on the door. Not a complaint, but it was a
guitarist from a few doors away who was looking for a drummer to play a gig he
had at a local Youth Club; I said yes immediately. The following weekend I
played my first gig, two forty five minute sets AND a drum solo — I had been
drumming for 14 days, I must have been terrible but I was 16 and had no fear
whatsoever!!!
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| Hugh McGouran |
That gig was a one off with a local covers band, which was not the way I wanted to go. I had two close friends {Steve and Pete} with whom I shared a love of proper music. They both played guitar and were beginning to write their own songs. This was the beginning of a performing relationship which is still in place 45 years later. We did a few gigs, first as Oasis and then as Stroller. We were quite good and built a small but loyal following. Our biggest problem was the fact that we had long hair and liked prog……but it was 1977 and the world had turned to punk! The guys started to try and write short aggressive songs, but I didn't like where we were going, so I moved on - a pattern that would become part of my career. I joined two rock bands and realised that drummers were in demand and I could get lots of gigs if I became a bit of a drum whore!! A few months passed and I felt the bands were a bit limited and lacked ambition, so I went back to the market. I joined a very cool band who could be described as arty punk. The songs were very well constructed with amazing lyrics, but they played them really fast and called themselves punk!! The band was called Dangerbird, after a Neil Young song, and was led by Rod Liddle who went on to be a world famous, controversial author and very successful journalist. We did a few gigs, including a support slot with The Only Ones, but university was beckoning most of the band and it ran out of momentum. Rod decided, like me, that he didn't want to go to university, so we joined forces with Steve and Pete to form a local supergroup which we called Blind Look. This came to nothing as, within weeks Rod got a job on a Newspaper in Wales and was gone, leaving us without a singer. We blundered on for a month or so until I saw an ad in the local paper looking for a drummer to join the very well respected local band Jackthighs — this was a different ballgame. They had a huge PA, lights and two vans!! They had a major following and they were so much older than me. I went to the audition and was full of youthful arrogance and confidence. They wanted a simple straight drummer, like Phil Rudd, to replace the very busy fiddly drummer that they had recently sacked. I lied about my age and playing experience and got the gig.
When and how did Jackthighs was formed? And who came up with this, errrr, a bit unusual title?
Jackthighs formed in 1975 by school friends John Knott (bass and
vocals), Nigel Brown (lead guitar) and Ian (Charlie) Tindall (drums). They
quickly added Terry Swain on lead guitar and began developing their signature
twin lead approach. The name came from a nickname of a school friend. John Knott left the band around 1977 I think. He was
replaced by Brian Tippey (aka Brian West) on bass, who had a huge amount of
experience on the cabaret/covers circuit, and Terry Keegan on vocals, who was
an experienced singer on the original band circuit. It was at this time the
trademark Thin Lizzy twin lead style really took hold. The band’s high point at
this time was an appearance at the Glasgow Apollo as finalists in the Us
(deodorant brand) Battle of the Bands. The band made a studio demo and recorded
a session for Radio Tees 257, which was broadcast on Brian Anderson’s Natural
Mass rock show. I expect there was a lot of activity to try and secure gigs and
recording deals at this time but I have no details.
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| Terry Keegan |
The songwriting was done exclusively by Terry Keegan, Nigel Brown
and Terry Swain although Brian Tippey did receive a credit for “Paper Chaser”
on the BBC album.
Nigel handled all the organisation of the band, as it was his band. He
sent out demos, did the selling of the band and booked all the gigs. He
borrowed huge amounts of money to buy PA equipment and vans.
Brian and Nigel did all the driving until 1980 as they were the only
ones with licenses to drive. We must have been the only band on the road at the
time with a Roadie who couldn’t drive, he was a close friend of Brian’s called
Denny. During 1980 we took on two new crew members, Phil Thomas (drum tech) and
Michael Goff (sound man), who could drive, but at this time we had bought a 52
seat bus, converted into a mobile home, and a 3 Ton Ford truck, so Brian and
Nigel continued to drive the bus. The van would leave three hours ahead of the
band with the three crew and they would do the get in; we would arrive in time
for the soundcheck.
The band were
unbelievably polite and well behaved, which was probably a bad thing to be
honest, we should have been more rebellious. Nigel was
a gifted storyteller and would make up outrageous but believable stories about
his life and other things, and everyone fell for them, especially journalists! The
rest of us were quite shy and introverted. I was only 19 when all of this was
happening. Terry Swain was terrified of his fiancée (Lindsay) and lived in fear
of her bad moods. We played at the Warehouse in Liverpool one night and were
invited to stay at the home of two sisters, who we met at a previous gig (in
Birkenhead) a few weeks earlier. It was the middle of winter and we didn’t have
a gig the following night, but needed to be in London the day after, so we
decided to stay. The girls had laid on food and beer and gave us free run of
the bath and washing machine, it was heaven. We were there 48 hours, and no
point did Terry leave the bus for fear of Lindsay finding out he had been
fraternising with girls! One of the sisters offered to take food and beer out
to him, but Nigel stopped her, ”If he’s hungry, he can bloody well come in and
get something to eat!”
This period was great fun but also very tough. We toured constantly,
but had to ration money and food, as we had to pay for diesel. There were times we simply
couldn’t afford to eat. When on tour with Saxon, our crew were instructed to
find where the caterers had hidden the food and steal what they could.
One time we were gigging in Mansfield on the Thursday and Nottingham on the
Saturday, which was only about 30 miles apart, so Nigel informed us we were
going to Trowell Services and we were going to sit there for two days as we
couldn’t afford the diesel to get home and back. Terry Swain was so bored he
ended up helping a shopfitting team who were building a burger bar in the
services, he fitted the neon arrows guiding hungry travellers to the burgers. I
passed that sign for twenty years before it was taken down. Another time, in
early 1981, we played a Friday night at Southend Zero 6 Club. At the end of the
night Nigel went to get the money and was given a cheque which we had no way of
cashing until Monday morning. We hadn’t eaten since Thursday and there was no
diesel in either of the vehicles. In the end Dave Poxon, one of our (and
Saxon’s) managers got the train out to Southend from London on the Saturday
afternoon with some cash for us, so we could eat and drive home.
Brian was the clever one with gear and could manage a lot of on the
hoof repairs, he would repair leads, change valves and do work on guitars. Nigel
and Brian were able to mend the vehicles.
"The band were unbelievably polite and well behaved, which was probably a bad thing to be honest, we should have been more rebellious."
How was the rock scene in Middlesbrough back then? Did the pubs and city halls let you play on a regular basis? What were the most popular places to go among rock fans and musicians at the time?
The Rock Garden in Middlesbrough was THE venue at the time. We were
fortunate to play there a few times. More about this venue below.
I guess you were at least familiar with the guys from Black Rose, Holland/Hammer and Omen. Did you share the stage with them?
Black Rose were about when I joined Jackthighs, but were very much
beginners who really looked up to our band. I know Kenny quite well and have
gigged occasionally with him over the years. Charlie McKenzie from Black Rose was
(briefly) my replacement in Taurus in late 1981. I’m aware of the others you
mention by name, but they came much later than Taurus and I was well out of the
rock circuit by then. I still bump into Kenny very regularly at our local
rehearsal studios.
Some Dennis Bailey (aka Freddie Farkle) mentioned that he has various demos of the band. First of all, who is this man? And secondly, what demos he talks about? When and where were they recorded, what were the songs and do these demos still exist?
Dennis was a school friend of Nigel and John Knott. He acted as a
quasi “manager” in the early days, but was gone by the time I arrived. He
became a successful businessman and owned a shopfitting company called
ShopSystems, who fitted supermarkets. In later years Dennis employed most of us
as casual labour, and then employed Brian (and Craig Ellis I believe) in a
formal manner, with Brian becoming a manager at the Teesside branch after it
was bought out by German company Wanzel. Nigel’s ex-wife Lynn was also a major
player with the company and has since married the guy who was UK Director for
Wanzel and they run their own shopfitting firm to this day.
The demos Dennis refers to are the ones mentioned above, all of which I have copies. Dennis is still about and trying his hand at music management, in fact I’m doing a gig this Friday with one of his clients, so I’ll probably see him and he’ll be going on about how Paperchaser should be rereleased.
 |
| Brian West |
We were booked by the Rock Garden to do a PA hire for the John Peel
Radio 1 Roadshow. At the end of the gig while packing down, Nigel approached
John and asked him if he would pass our new demo (recorded at Guardian Studios
Durham, the only one I don’t have a copy of) to Tommy Vance, and promise not to
listen to it himself as he’d hate it. He offered to do one better. He hinted to
Nigel that Tommy was fond of a drink and actually didn’t have a lot to do with
the production of the show; instead he promised to give it to Tony Wilson, the
show’s producer. We didn’t expect anything to happen (as we had got used to)
but on Monday afternoon we received a call inviting us to Maida Vale the
following week. A lot of things were happening simultaneously during these few
weeks, and we were struggling to keep up. Nigel wanted to buy a new PA (a huge
mistake, we should have invested in a single like the Tygers) and he was impressed
by the rigs used by AC/DC and Saxon, built by a company called Hill PA.
Coincidently, the new desk at Guardian was a Hill, and Terry Gavagan, the
owner, gave Nigel a contact to call. He called the contact to enquire about
used PA gear and was told the stuff rarely came up for sale (although we did
find a used 1.6k rig later that week) but he should keep in touch. Nigel was/is
very chatty and spent half an hour shooting the breeze with the guy at Hill PA,
who turned out to be Ron Blechner, at the time manager of Saxon. Ron asked to
hear our demo, which he liked very much and invited us to London to discuss
representation. Nigel told him about the Friday Rock Show invitation. Two weeks
later Ron invited us to support Welsh band Budgie at the Retford Porterhouse as
he wanted a couple of people to check us out live. He sent Morty from Racing
Cars and Nigel Thomas, who was currently producing Morty’s solo album and had
just been working on Strong Arm of the Law for Saxon. Things happened very
quickly and we signed a management deal with Blechner/Poxon and a publishing
deal with Riffiffi, Nigel Thomas’ company. At the same time we were about to
record the BBC session. We were in London a week or so later on a Wednesday to
play the Music Machine (supporting Broken Home feat. Dicken from Mr Big), and
the Friday Rock Show was going out the same week. The trails had been recorded
and played all week announcing Jackthighs Radio 1 debut that Friday. We were
staying with Alex, a friend (former soundman to the band before my time) at his
house near Heathrow and we received a call from Dave Poxon on the Thursday morning
saying they wanted to sign us, but the name had to go, and we had to change it
before the show went out the next day!! We sat in the kitchen with dictionary,
thesaurus and probably a copy of “Lord of the Rings” in an attempt to come up
with a new name. As it turned out, Terry Keegan asked us all our birth signs
and Nigel said he was a Taurus, and the deed was done. We called the BBC that
day and Tommy Vance told the nation that we were now Taurus.
I guess that the show was a big deal for you. What are your best memories about going to London and spending some time there, recording the songs with Tony Wilson etc.? How did the session go? Did you record everything in 1 or 2 takes or were there some issues etc.?
It was very exciting to go the Maida Vale, although there was so
much happening that it all just blurred into a massive head rush. A week after
that session we were in Basing Street Studios when my entire record collection
seemed to have been recorded, now that was intimidating!!
We did two takes for each song apart from “Paper Chaser”. Terry did
double vocal overdubs but that was about it. We left “Paper Chaser” till last
and most of us had had a few beers by this point. We knew we had to get it in
one take, and we did. Probably the best we ever played in a studio setting, we
basically did it as we would on stage.
By the way, did you have more original songs than the four you recorded for the show? Why did you pick up these particular songs for the show?
We had dozens of songs, and we had a highly rehearsed 60 minute set
of all original material. Nigel will have chosen the songs. I agreed with three
of his choices, but I never liked You Know How I’m Feeling, I always thought of
it as a cheap Thin Lizzy rip off.
“Paper Chaser” was released on “Metal Explosion From The Friday Rock Show” compilation. Were you asked about that or was it all up to Tom Wilson and Tommy Vance?
I seem to think we were just told it was happening, maybe Ron and
Dave had some influence, but I can’t say for sure.
The “Friday Rock Show” brought a lot of bands to the map, For example, Londoners More got a record deal with Atlantic Records after Tommy Vance broadcasted their songs. Did you get any offers after the show?
By the time the show went out we had signed our lives away for five
years with Ron and Dave, and Nigel Thomas, which was a HUGE mistake. We recorded an entire album of
material in Basing Street at an eye watering cost (to someone) and it was all
utter garbage, I can’t listen to it, it’s just awful. Nigel Thomas
produced it and basically he wasn’t a producer. But he was very rich and very
connected. He had been agent to Joe Cocker and Leon Russel for years, he lived
in a permanent apartment in the Savoy! We were his third attempt at production,
but his first two had been with experienced musicians who knew how to get their
sound, he produced “Love Blind” for Morty (with a couple of standout tracks)
and “Strong Arm of the Law “for Saxon (but I believe he didn’t dare open his
mouth, he just paid the bills), but when I came to us it was the blind leading
the blind. If it hadn’t been for Andy Lydon on the desk (who went on to a
stellar career as a producer) I don’t think we would have actually finished a
single track. We even had Andy Clark from Be Bop Deluxe on keys, but even he
couldn’t save it. It was so frustrating. The experience though was amazing as
the people who dropped into the studio for a coffee and a chat read like the
who’s who of early 80’s rock music.
"We recorded an entire album of material in Basing Street at an eye watering cost (to someone) and it was all utter garbage, I can’t listen to it, it’s just awful."
The band played in the famous club “Marquee”, which was another achievement under your belts. Now the club is a legend and people tend to think, “Woah! How did they manage to do that?” So was it hard to book the club for a show or to get a support slot there?
I think we did the Marquee about four or five times, headlining just
once with Limelight as our support, which was tricky as it was because of us
they got thrown off the 1980 Saxon UK Tour, which I believe they paid £20,000
to get on. I think all our Marquee slots were booked by Ron and Dave, the first
being support to Girl on their first UK gigs.
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| Nigel Brown |
That was a lovely gig and quite the head turner for me as Cozy
Powell came along to watch, as did Ian Paice. I was very shy but did speak to
Don Airey and Tommy Aldrich, who was shatteringly good, especially in the
soundcheck
You also supported Slade, Saxon, Tygers of Pan Tang and probably many others. Could you share some stories about those events?
Too many to go into to be honest. Tygers were nice lads, and we were
all sort of feeling our way as fledgling wannabee rock stars. The atmosphere on
that tour was great, as we were all from the same part of the country and no
one had become “big time” at this point.
Slade were simply brilliant. They didn’t speak to us at all for the
first part of the tour, until we got to Wolverhampton Civic Hall. Noddy (call
me Bill) came in to our dressing room and explained that we were going to have
a very VERY hard night, as the audience had zero interest in a support band
from Middlesbrough, and how right he was! He came in though, to invite us to a
Slade family party (or as he said Parr-Tay) at the Dog and Trumpet in north
Wolverhampton, their old local pub. It turned out to be a proper party with no
rock and rollers, just the band’s parents and close family…..and us! It was
lovely and it was that night when Don took me under his wing and helped me
learn to become a stadium drummer and not a club drummer. I was in touch with
Don very recently when he sent me an email out of the blue saying how much fun
we had had back then, which was amazing as he has significant memory issues, so
I guess I made it into one of his legendary diaries.
Saxon were just “OK”. To be honest I think we scared the shit out of
them when we played our first support gig in Ashford, Kent. We had come
straight off the Slade tour the night before and we were on fire. Our contract forbade us from
doing an encore, but when we came off JJ, the stage manager, said “Oh dear, I’m
in the gents having a piss, so I’m not able to stop you going back on”
and so we went back and blew the roof off the place. Needless to say, it never
happened again. I bumped into Biff a year or so later in his home village of
Goldthorpe in Yorkshire He was wearing his trademark leather jacket with the
white lapels, and was riding a 125cc motorbike with “L” plates on. He swore me
to secrecy as he hadn’t passed his test and Ron and Dave wanted them all on
bikes for the “Denim and Leather” tour!!
"We scared the shit out of Saxon when we played our first support gig in Ashford, Kent."
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| Terry Swain |
Most fave stories above, but the best I think happened at The
Roadhouse Services on the Northbound A1 near Rutland. We had been touring with
Slade for some time, then came off the tour a few days before Christmas to do
three nights with Saxon. We were a bit sad to leave the boys before the end of
the tour, but the Saxon dates were taking us to another level. We had pulled up
in the car park of the services to get some sleep and at about 2am we were
woken to the sight and sound of a huge artic pulling up to the side of our bus
with horn blaring and lights flashing. It was the Slade crew; they had spotted
our bus from the southbound carriageway on their way home (or to the next gig)
and decided that we needed waking up. They jumped on our bus brandishing vodka
and we partied into the small hours. I treasure that memory when you consider a
gang of hardened rock and roll crew, who must have endure dozens of shitty
little support acts, thought enough of us to stop and say hello.
When and why did you change the name from Taurus to Raid the North? How long did the band last after that?
I can’t say for sure as I was sacked in June 1981, two days after my
21st birthday party, which the boys all attended. It took me many
years to forgive them, although I am friendly with them now, in fact one of my
closest friends is Charlie Tindale, who’s gig I stole in 1979! The band was
pretty much lost in a sea of incompetent management by this time. They changed
to Raid The North and then some time later to The Works. They sacked Charlie McKenzie
(my replacement) and then got Craig Ellis in, now he’s a proper drummer. He and
Brian became close friends and joined Tygers together after spending the mid
80’ as guitar and drum techs to Status Quo. The band stumbled on but it all
ground to a halt in the mid 80’s.
By the way, you also changed the title of “Paper Chaser” to “Won't Take No for an Answer”. Did you record that version?
No idea, Nigel used to like to rearrange songs, I guess it will have
been his call. I was long gone, if any version exists I suspect it will be
Craig on drums.
A German band called Roxxcalibur covered “Paper Chased” on their album “Gems of NWOBHM”. Have you heard the cover? Do you know someone from the band?
I’ve heard it, it’s good but they could probably have done with the
lyrics, there are some interesting interpretations in there. I don’t know
anyone from the band.
Have you ever been asked about a proper release of the songs which you recorded during the BBC session? Is it legally possible to release an EP, or do BBC own the rights?
All that material is owned by the BBC and cannot be released. I did
a local radio interview with a brilliant presenter who became a friend. While I
was on air with him, he searched Taurus in the BBC Archive database and found a
record of the master tapes. He very cheekily put a request in for the tapes to
be found and digitised, not expecting it to happen, and two weeks later I got
an email with all four tracks straight from the master tapes.
After Taurus you were in Art Decade and Racey. Unfortunately I have zero knowledge about these bands. Could you shed light on that period of your career?
After being sacked I came home to lick my wounds, it was an awful
few months. I joined a local club band and played covers until Christmas 1981,
then I hooked up with my old mate Steve who was writing and playing for a very
glamourous singer called Linzi Hunter (you’ll find her credited on some Bill
Wyman albums) and I joined them in January 1982. We released a single on
Polydor France under the name Lin-Zee, which was pretty awful, but we did get
to go to Paris and do TV there. That line up played under the names: Tokyo
Rose, Samurai and Art Decade, but split up in summer 1984 after a long tour of
Ireland. During that tour we masqueraded as Racey, a pure pop group from the
70’s with four hits, backing the original singer Richard Gower. It was all a
bit crap but it paid the rent. I ended up staying in Dublin for a year of so
where I was tour manager to Showaddywaddy, the Bay City Rollers and several
other truly awful bands.
 |
| Art Decade |
I’m currently playing drums and percussion for the Marie Marx Band (check out the album Universe on Spotify) and still working with Steve under the name McCormick (loads on Spotify and YouTube).
After Taurus Brian West joined Tygers and later became roadie/tech for Uriah Heap. What about others? Did they remain in the music business? Are you in touch with them? Did you consider a reunion of Taurus?
Terry Swain has vanished off the
face of the earth, he clearly doesn’t do social media. Last I heard he was a
window cleaner. Terry Keegan lives in Brighton and I’m still in regular contact
with him. Nigel came back into my world briefly in 1992 when he ran a
shopfitting gang, for which I worked from time to time while I was at
university. Last I heard he was living in Redcar with his elderly mother, so I
guess he probably inherited the house and is still there. I did hear a whisper
that Terry Swain and Nigel were writing again, but that was probably ten years
ago. I don’t think there will ever be talk of a
reunion, it would be very complicated due to the amount of musicians that were
in the band, there are at least four drummers to consider… However it’s me
that is immortalised on “Paper Chaser!!! (Laughs)
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