"The golden age (of metal, literature, humanity, art, whatever) has gone forever and will never be repeated" — this idea is as old as hills. Apparently, there won't be anything like NWOBHM with its sheer rawness, over the top enthusiasm of both bands and fans, excitement, electrified atmosphere (geez, I'm ready to burst into tears!). But modern days have their own advantages. There are way more opportunities to discover the bands that were overlooked back then, there are much more labels who are into re-releasing all sorts of NWOBHM stuff from classic albums to rough demos. What did I know about Liverpool's Original Sin 10 years ago? Only what was written in Malc MacMillan's book (i. e. very little). And now we can talk to the guitarist Kevin McGinn while waiting for the release of Original Sin's demo anthology on Obscure NWOBHM Releases label. Ready for another journey down the memory lane? Here you go!
Could you tell me a bit about your childhood? What was it like to be a kid in Liverpool in the 70’s? Was it a safe place?
I was one of six children and we grew up near a middle-class area of Childwall in the suburbs of Liverpool. My mum was widowed while expecting her 6th child but she was an amazing woman and I had a wonderful childhood growing up in the 60’s and 70’s. I lost my Dad when I was 5 so have very few memories of him, but I did have other male role models like my Grandad and Uncle Frank who took me to Everton matches. Liverpool was considered a left-wing militant city in the 70’s and early 80’s, but football was the most important thing in my life until I was about 13 when I got my scarf robbed at the match and thought “sod that I’ll get a guitar!” Music was changing in the late 70’s with punk and new wave. Most of my mates were drawn to punk when the Sex Pistols and The Jam came along, but I stuck to heavy metal. My first proper gig was at Liverpool Stadium watching Hawkwind in 1975. The Stadium was a boxing/wrestling venue in the centre of Liverpool that hosted rock shows promoted by Roger Eagle who would become famous for starting Eric’s club. The boxing ring was used as the stage and half the arena was curtained off. But in the late 70’s most big rock gigs were at the Empire theatre. I first saw Judas Priest there in 1978 and that was it for me. Like music from another planet.
Why did you pick up the guitar? Was it your way to put youth energy into something constructive?
I was bright enough to get to grammar school and met new mates that were a bit more arty. The telly show Top of the Pops was the event of the week and the dreams of being a pop star took over. But I failed the school’s music test so didn’t learn an orchestral instrument or read music, but thanks to my wonderful mother loaning me money and a paper round I bought a bass guitar. I had to plug this into an old radio but I was making noise! I used to sit on the front door step pretending to play that red Top Twenty bass hoping the girls would be impressed, sadly no one was arsed, so the logical next step was a 6 string Hofner. That defo sounded better plugged into the old radio!
Before Original Sin you, Steve Daley and Alan Brunskill were in a band called Backstage. How did you actually meet?
The first band Backstage was Ged Maguire - vocals, John Hollingsworth - bass, Andy McCarten - guitar and Kev McGinn - guitar. We were all in the same school but couldn’t find a drummer until we advertised in the Liverpool Echo and got Alan Brunskill on board. That band peaked at a pensioners Christmas party in Old Swan - they were rocking in their wheelchairs!
I guess Backstage had some original songs but what song/songs convinced you that the band really had some potential?
Backstage was just a covers band that were paid with baskets of fruit.
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| Backstage is on stage! |
The band managed to record a demo with Ian McNabb. Did he really help you in the studio or did he just pushbuttons and that was it?
Ian McNabb knew all about mixing and micing up drums etc, as we didn’t have a flipping clue. He also got us to do the right songs and choose the right takes to make that first demo really good and punchy for its time. He even wrote a song for us but the lads didn’t like it, which looking back was a bit daft cos he played us a cool demo he’d done. He was a bit miffed that we turned our noses up at it.
Did you play the songs off the demo until the band dissolved or did you drop them once you wrote newer material?
The early songs were dropped as time went by as they were pretty basic and we changed into a two-guitar band. It’s funny how you disown your early stuff.
Backstage didn’t play gigs but I believe you attended shows in Eric’s, Brady’s, The Warehouse or Night Riders. What local bands were really enjoyable to watch?
There were some great bands playing the local scene. Export, Asylum, Charge, Dick Smith Band, Eleanor, Rock School, Eat at Joes, Blue Vein, Madame, Joker, Taxi Annie. Many bands played their own songs and made a living. There were other great venues: Cherry Tree in Runcorn, Sir James Entertains in Birkenhead, The Empress in New Brighton and The Lion in Warrington.
Were you friends with Damascus(a.k.a. Domestos), Robespierre, Rough Justice, Savage Lucy, or Liverpool’s heroes Nutz/Rage, Dick Smith Band and Spider? What bands were your best pals who you loved to share the stage with and do all sorts of mischief?
We did gigs with Charge at The Cave in Liverpool and a band called Aftermath. We had funny gig at a roller-skating rink in Wales with Aftermath supporting us, we fell out with them after charging them to use our PA and their guitarist going to get his policeman dad to lock us up! My memory of those days was that it was very competitive and lots of bitching between competing bands, particularly the rock/metal bands. We were jealous of Rough Justice and Harvest Moon ‘cos they made it to the Battle of the Bands final which we never did! We didn’t know Damascus but were jealous of them too ‘cos they were good and got plenty of radio play by Adam Faith who was a big star. Liverpool had a great commercial radio station Radio City that had a rock show hosted by Phil Easton and later Kev McDempster. Rock music was popular in Liverpool back then and Phil had a show most evenings playing all the great bands of the day. He’d also did a gig guide and played demo’s and records of local bands. There was also pirate radio station Radio Jackie North with Rick Dayne. We did a gig with Rage at The Warehouse, Dave Lloyd, their singer, asked us not to use any pyro as the smoke would harm his voice… so we used every pyro we had, it was just like bonfire night. We didn’t get asked back again! Most of the mischief we had was with ourselves and under the influence of drink. At our early gigs we usually arrived too early and started drinking. None of us could drive then so we didn’t need to stay sober but performances suffered! At Sandgrounders bar in Southport Mark slipped on his beer and fell face down in a puddle of lager and couldn’t get up ‘cos the stage was like a skid pan! Thinking about it most of our mishaps were falls. I fell off the stage at the GPO club in Blackpool when a pyro bomb hit me like a piece of shrapnel. I managed to keep going but my knee was locked at a 30-degree angle. Alan offered to jump on my knee and straighten it, but luckily I declined. The following night we supported Mama’s Boys at Liverpool Poly and I had to hop on the stage like Long John Silver! Another time we nicked a load of booze from a club and smuggled it out inside the drums, however in our haste to make a getaway we’d left one of our Marshalls on the stage! We managed to get the following band playing there to smuggle it out and did a checkpoint Charlie rendezvous to get it back!
I guess you changed the name to Original Sin as it was more “metal”. Did you consider other names?
The name Original Sin was from my religious upbringing but was barely tolerated by the other guys and brought shame to my mother so no one was happy. We did discuss other names and later on nearly changed it to Tazmania at one point. Craig suggested two names: Bad Sprouts and Mundane. Steve wanted to call us Hawk or La Hoste. Even nowadays I keep a list of band names to hand to help people out, 'cos a band name has to pass a number of tests: 1. Can you tell it to your mum or mates without embarrassment? 2. Is it memorable? 3. Does it describe the music? 4. Has it been used before?
Were you aware of NWOBHM and what was going on in London and other cities in the late 70‘s and early 80’s?
Yes, we were on the same circuit as some NWOBHM bands at one point. We were booked to play at The Coconut Grove in Liverpool and arrived to see another band setting up. We’d been bloody double booked! But it was all sorted out and the other band — Def Leppard — was sent off back to Sheffield! We saw Iron Maiden playing at The Metro club in the late 70’s too and through reading Sounds music paper we knew there was something happening in metal at grass roots level. The guys from Streetfighter came to see us at Mr. Jenks club in Blackpool and we hung out with Merv Goldsworthy who ended up in FM and John Sykes of Tygers of Pan Tang, Thin Lizzy and Whitesnake. Some friends were making the move to London to have a go at making it, including our bassist Paul Hollingsworth but don’t know what became of him, but hats off for following his dreams.
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| Original Sin Mk 3: Kev, Steve, Alan, Mark, Les |
Rob quit the band because he wanted to do something more melodic. Funny enough I met up with Rob a few days ago and he was saying that he ended up in bands who gave him less creativity. The Sin was never just one or two people calling the shots it was democratic but a bun fight getting songs together.
Could you tell me about Rob’s and Les’ playing styles and stage performances? Who matched your style of playing better?
We called Rob Mr. Iceman, a very cool and calm personality and a fluid, melodic lead style. Les played in a unique off the wall style that was a bit wild and he was a great riff writer. We used to finish the gigs with a bit of a guitar duel and Les would always win! Bastard! I remember Rob was very easy to work with and great company, Les came up with cool riffs and had a lead style that was a bigger contrast from my bluesy style.
We had three drummers in all. Alan was at the beginning and he had great timekeeping like a metronome. He plays on all the demos up to the single which almost sounds like a drum machine, it’s so tight. It sounds like he played to a click track but it was all his spot-on timing. Even after 40 years Alan is still very hurt that we voted him out. We felt that we needed a fancier player, but looking back I regret replacing him as it damaged the brothers’ relationship and tore the soul out of the band. Alan was replaced by Steve Ashton from Deeside who was great player with a cool double kick kit. Steve would get frustrated with our gobby antics as he was a quiet sensitive soul. He really wanted to record but we never made it to the studio with him and he quit after a year. Then we got Brian Parry from Rough Justice who was an incredible player. Brian was very talented and we changed our style to more prog metal with his flamboyant beats. Trouble was he was a bit inconsistent and would start on a drum fill halfway through the verse if he was in the mood, which was a nightmare if you’re trying to keep up! Brian was very upset when we finished and would phone me up often over the next few years to see if we’d get back together. We had four bassists: John Mac played on the first demo in 1979 but then moved to London. Mark Philips has a story all his own and was great performer but eventually went AWOL which was probably for the best as he was always trying to charm his way into our girlfriends’ affections! Paul Hollingsworth from Widnes was a high energy character who wanted to be a star. He played good stuff on the 12” single but never forgave us for misspelling his name on the sleeve. That was Steve’s fault! Craig Hay replaced him and had some pedigree cos his brother was in Madame and then joined Marseilles. Craig was endlessly teased and picked on but he had great hair.
You and Steve Daley were the most dedicated members of Original Sin. What was your motivation to keep the band going for so long?
Me and Steve bonded as mates and songwriters. We used to socialise a lot when we were in our 20’s and meet for a drink in town. Steve had and still has a unique voice that is a high alto with some real grit. He always surprised me with the quality of his lyrics that had real depth and darkness so I think we made some great music together.
Some of your demos and the single “Salvation” were recorded in Amazon Studio. What can you say about the place and the staff?
Amazon was the only professional studio near Liverpool. It was near a pretty rough area Kirkby but near farmland and far away from pubs so no distractions! Our first demo was recorded in their 8-track suite, this was upgraded to 16-track when we recorded the single and our last demo was in their main 24 track place and mixed in their SSL room, one of the first in the UK back then. But the main resource was their people. Keith Andrews and Geoff Higgins engineered and produced our best recordings there and gave the later recording a massive sound.
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| Original Sin Mk 5: Kev, Craig, Steve A, Steve D, Les |
By 1985 we had lost momentum with our career as a band. Our manager Tony Barwood was too busy so we had no real direction. Steve was doing most of the gig hustling and we did a showcase spot at Dingwalls in London on a Sunday night which went well. There was talk of an album deal with Music for Nations but it came to nothing. By this time some of us were settling down and starting families. It seems daft now but I was also losing my hair! It was receding in the front and a bald patch at the back so it was game over!
How helpful was the deal with Important Records who distributed the single in the States? Did you get any fan mails, reviews or interview requests from overseas?
I don’t know who arranged distribution through Important Records, I assume it was Cartel. I wasn’t involved with any of the business side and its only looking back that it was significant. I didn’t see any fan mail and only Kerrang and Raw Power reviewed the record.
Alan Brunskill’s departure after the recording of “Salvation” was just bad timing, I guess. Why did he quit?
As I said above Alan was pushed out of the band cos we wanted a flashier player and he is still very bitter about that and our friendship has never really recovered.
There is a video for “Make or Break” off your last demo “Burning”. Could you tell me about the making of it? Did you have a decent budget? Was it broadcasted on TV?
The video was made for free by a friend of ours called Razzbag who wanted to do a showreel. He worked for a TV show Razzamatazz I think so had access to all the gear. We set up in Cantril Farm Labour Club on a Sunday morning in 1985 and set up as many lights as we could get hold of. We had camouflage netting as a backdrop and did the run through many times miming to the track. The end bit is so embarrassing where me and Les are jigging away! It was never used commercially as by this time we were pretty directionless as a band and basically couldn’t be arsed.
Did your musical preferences and influences change while you were in Original Sin? What bands/artists were your role models? Did you like heavier bands who appeared in the middle 80’s?
We were all big fans of Judas Priest for sure. Steve was a big fan of Magnum. I really liked early Saxon and when Queensryche and Accept came along I thought we’d missed the boat really. I didn’t really get Metallica and the thrash bands.
You had plenty of material but never recorded a full-length album. I guess you waited for a proper deal and a chance to work in a big studio. Was it the right decision in hindsight?
We had the material but didn’t have the money to go in the studio back then. I think we could’ve made a strong record. Getting the right production was always tricky. We’d kind of got fed up of each other by then really so if we’d got a deal I don’t think we’d have survived on the road. However, I think there is unfinished business and I’m in the process of recording 8 songs that we wrote back then. I’ve done the backing tracks and Steve is recording the vocals next month. Craig Hay plays bass and me and Les on guitar. If there’s enough interest we will release an Original Sin album.
What Original Sin’s songs still make you proud?
“Make or Break” was a great song cos of its unusual arrangement. “The Shadow” I’m proud of too. But even our first song “Make a Stand” sounds brill to me.
The band did a lot of local gigs, but what about other cities/counties? Any memories about funny/odd shows?
We played a few times in Leeds where the we’d play two nights in different venues then sleep in the van after loads of drink to offset the freezing cold! After setting up in The Target Club in Reading one night we went for wander round the town and asked a smartly dressed couple where the nightlife was to which replied in broad cockney “You fellas looking for a bit of c*nt?!” We played well at our showcase at Dingwalls despite using the in-house backline and drums. We managed to dial in some metal tones on the Fender Twin amps, but hilariously the indie band that followed us used the same sounds — and the sound of grunge was born five years early! The final gigs were in South Wales I can’t remember the first night but the last night was at Tonypandy Naval Club which was part of the NWOBHM circuit. The PA hire guy let us sleep on the floor of his house and cooked us breakfast. We had so much gear jammed in the hired van that my Explorer guitar got crushed. I didn’t realise until it went out of tune on the second night that the neck was cracked! The sound guy gave use a tape of the last show and there is a track on the cd from that night.
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| Original Sin Mk 6: Craig, Les, Kev, Steve D, Brian |
Could you tell me a bit about your light and sound technicians Bob and Eddie Meadows? I guess there was more than just one event when the situation with pyros was way out of hand?
Bob and Eddie were and still are great friends of mine and were so committed to Original Sin over the years. Bob built a lightning board from scratch and was very creative setting up and running the lights. There’s also a timber back drop that he and Alan built and a drum riser made from a ping pong table! We borrowed proper pyro pods and used commercial cartridges but they got too pricey so Bob used to recycle the old cartridges and buy the powder and fuse wire to make his own, more deadly arsenal! Eddie was a gas engineer and wanted to have flames coming out of the guitars by inserting a brass pipe in the neck and have flames firing out of the headstock! However, we compromised by letting him build the exploding guitar: an old guitar hollowed out and inserting a pyro charge which Bob could trigger from his desk. This seldom worked as planned. At the climax of the show Steve would pretend to play the guitar and hold it up above his head at which point Bob would push the button. BANG! It was a great effect, but Steve would often pull the wire out or would inadvertently point the bomb at someone in the band or audience! One time the explosion caused one of the ceiling light PAR cans to fall out and it swung on its wire missing people’s heads by inches! Another time the backdraft caused the bottles on shelves behind the bar to jump and cascade on to the bar staff!
When did you realize that it was time to put the band on the ice? Was there a farewell show or something like that?
By mid 1985 I’d given it all I had and I thought we’d missed the boat as the scene was changing to hair metal and I was losing hair! The band didn’t have as many gigs and were all in our mid 20’s and settling down. We’d actually started putting on eyeliner and backcombing our hair (as sparse as mine was!) trying to keep up with the trends. There was no farewell show as there wasn’t much interest in us. Our last show in Liverpool was at The Firehouse and we were supported by a band called The Quest that went on to record some good albums. Although we played well The Quest blew us away and I knew it was time to stop.
Brian Parry later played with Grim Reaper (that would be very interesting to hear his story about it!), Mark Phillips was in Doom Engine, but what about others? Did they join some bands after Original Sin?
Les and Alan Brunskill didn’t play in any bands after the Sin. Craig played in some function bands, me and Steve have done covers acts. Steve has sung in a rock covers band and a UFO tribute, Steve currently has an Elton John tribute act. I play in covers rock band Roadhog and some solo acoustic.
A few years ago you turned down an offer to release a compilation of your demos. What’s was wrong with the offer and why did you decide to release the compilation these days?
The only other offer I received the contract wasn’t one I could agree to so didn’t proceed. Through social media I’ve reconnected with many of the Sin people Iэd lost touch with so I’ve been able to get most people on board.
The compilation which is coming on Obscure NWOBHM Records has pretty much everything that the band recorded. Was it easy to find those demos and digitize them?
I’d done a short run of this СD a few years ago to share with the lads I was in touch with and to try and archive old tapes different people had. Going through it again and trying to improve it was hard work and there were still glitches so I’m very grateful to Obscure NWOBHM Records for helping me out.
Have you already thought about a reunion show/release party?
I’ve approached a few of the guys and some are keen, some are still bitter and some live abroad! We’ll definitely do something but I don’t know where or when!
How can you summarize your experience with Original Sin/NWOBHM era?
The metal scene was very exciting for me back then. I was an avid reader of Sounds music paper that created NWOBHM and I saw many of those bands that were part of that genre. But even now people can’t decide what is or isn’t NWOBHM! However, my favourite time was the early 80’s when we could play our own songs in rock pubs across the north of England and had the best fun ever having a few beers and playing my Gibson SG though a Marshall stack every weekend!
Thanks to George Arvanitakis from Obscure NWOBHM Releases for making this interview possible!
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