Mark Venables (ex-Lone Wolf/Di'Anno): Fish, chips and Rock'n'Roll

After his departure from Iron Maiden Paul Di'Anno has had very eventful but also very chaotic career. The albums he recorded with Maiden still sound awesome and sum up what NWOBHM is about. I guess many people expected something raw and brutal on his first solo album and were quite surprised when the record finally hit the record stores. It was softer and more radio friendly type of music but to my taste the album is great anyway. Mark Venables who was the keyboard player on that album, recalls what it was like to play in that band. 

Mark, let's start with your very first steps in the music. When and how did you start to play keyboards? Was it your choice or were you forced to take lessons by your parents?

I was in love with music from early childhood and played a melodica, a blowy thing with a keyboard, in a junior school band. I became totally obsessed with keyboards in the really early days of synthesizers when no-one else knew what synths were! Although my parents were supportive of most things I did (mainly sports) I still had to pester them to get my first organ. No lessons. I wanted to create nice melodies and something meaningful rather than just play like a maestro. When I should have been diligently running through exercises I was looking for nice chord sequences instead!

Minas Tirith in action

Was Minas Tirith your first band? How did you get in touch with Mark Stuart, Kevin Browne and Lee Slater? Who sang in the band?

Minas Tirith was my first band at about 16/17 years old, around 1978. Kevin and Lee went to my school but were a couple of years older than me. I knew they played bass and guitar so I invited myself to a rehearsal in someone's front room with my trusty organ. The singer/second guitarist was a bloke called Paul Dennis also from my school. Mark Stuart was a friend of a friend who played drums. He came along a lot later. Paul Dennis was going down a much more prog rock path so we parted company as we wanted to be a bit more hard rock/AOR, and found a local lad with an incredible voice called Tony (Smith) Coldham who went on to be with Deep Machine, Strutt, and is now with The Deep and Tytan (Tony left Tytan earlier this year, after the interview was done — KC).

Did you play original songs? Did the band record anything? Would you say that the band was hopeful and had a chance to get a record deal?

We played all original songs, recorded several demos and were seeking management with a view to getting a record deal at the time Di'Anno came along.

How did you get in touch with Paul Di'Anno? Is it true that he found you in the famous Ruskin Arms club?

I knew a lady friend of Loopy, Iron Maiden's famous drum tech and best mate of Di'Anno. It had just been announced in the press that Di'Anno had left Maiden and I thought to myself, "wouldn't it be great if he wanted keyboards in his new band?" I didn't think it would actually happen. One night when Minas Tirith were playing there, before the show, my friend introduced me to Loopy, who I'd previously only known from a distance, who told me that the now-rather-famous Paul Di'Anno was coming along to watch me.

Tell me about the club, by the way. I heard a lot about it but I've never been there. What was it like? Where else did you play with Minas Tirith? Did you play in Cart & Horses, for example?

The Ruskin was an East End boozer more than a club. It was run by Joe Lucy, a previous British boxing champ. I first ventured along there when I was about 16/17, around 1977/78 to see Maiden. I was a regular after that. The windows of the back bar where the "stage" was, were all blacked out, and if you stood in the same spot for more than a few seconds you would stick to the floor. It was that kind of place, and I loved it. My schoolfriend Laurie Mansworth let us support his band Ophidian there, for our first ever gig. Minas Tirith played quite a few local gigs and The Kent Custom Bike Show. Never played the Cart & Horses but visited there a couple of times.

What were your first impressions about Paul? Was he that monster as he later described himself in the book "The Beast"?

Paul was never a monster when I knew him. I didn't read “The Beast”, although I skimmed it for references to my time in the band. There were hardly any (if I skimmed correctly), as if that period didn't exist! I had been contacted beforehand by Lea Hart about contributing to the book with any nasty stuff about Mr. D that I could think of. I thought someone was trying to do a complete hatchet job on him so I declined to take part!

Lone Wolf and Loopy (in the background)

You, Mark and Kevin joined Paul and John Wiggins in the band Lone Wolf. Why did John quit soon after that and was replaced with Lee Slater? How did you get to know P.J. Ward?

Paul P.J. Ward (a guitarist from Bastille) had already hooked up with Di'Anno prior to him coming to see me, and I think he also had a drummer in line. No bass player. I suggested Kevin Browne. I can't recall how Mark Stuart became involved, I think it was as a result of the other drummer not being able to make an early rehearsal. I was friends with John Wiggins from the Ruskin Arms. He had a great image and Di'Anno soon decided he wanted two guitarists. John was in, but he was a straight metal player, and Di'Anno was trying to do something more melodic. We suggested Lee Slater, a great all-style guitarist, and he turned up at rehearsal at two days' notice knowing all our fledgling songs better than we did! Di'Anno was knocked out by him, and Lone Wolf was complete. It was during this period that Phil Collen used to come to rehearsals looking for a gig. He jammed with us a bit but we now had our line-up. So he went and joined Def Leppard. He's probably fairly pleased that he did.

What can you recall from the days of Lone Wolf? Did you record anything? What happened to the songs "Overdose of Fear" and "Lone Wolf"?

Exciting times. We packed out The Ruskin at our first gig. The response was amazing. We did some demos at Shepperton and Rockfield. “Overdose” and “Lone Wolf” were pretty early songs and were soon pushed aside as better stuff came along.

Is it true that Lone Wolf supported Thin Lizzy at some of their shows? If yes, I can only imagine the chaos it caused as Paul and Phil loved some "substances"!

We supported Thin Lizzy on their 1982 English tour for their "Renegade" album. I think it's fair to say that some items of an exotic provenance were taken by certain individuals. But never at the expense of performance. Phil was a consummate pro.

Why did you change the name of the band to Di'Anno and dropped Iron Maiden songs off the set? Were they good decisions business-wise?

We were only ever going to use a couple of Maiden numbers at the start to fill out the set and keep the Di'Anno/Maiden interest going. The more songs we wrote and the more we formed our own style and identity, the less we needed to do covers. The name change came about partly because of another band with the name Lone Wolf, and partly because it would be better marketing to push Paul's name. It was a group decision that everyone was happy with.

How did you get a deal with FM Records? Did other labels show an interest?

We had a few close calls with big companies including one major label that we were about to sign with until we were told on the morning of the projected signing that there had been some kind of coup or power-shift in the A&R department literally overnight and that the new bloke didn't want to sign rock bands. I think FM had been pursuing us for a while. After all the other nonsense it seemed a good idea to go with a smaller label that might give us some more of their attention.

Tell me about the songwriting process in the band. All the musicians were credited which was really nice but was it really the case? Is it true that Paul spent some time at The Caribbean working on the songs? By the way, was it easy to work with Paul both on musical and personal levels?

I would bring a chorus idea or keyboard riff to rehearsal or the others would have their own ideas and we would all fill in the gaps and develop the songs between us. Paul would take away a tape and write some lyrics. Paul was on honeymoon in Antigua at one point, and I guess he wrote some words there as well. He was pretty easy to work with. He would say what he liked or didn't like, the same as the rest of us. On a personal level, we all enjoyed a beer or six together, and as our crew were our mates as well it felt pretty close-knit. I don't recall any massive fall-outs or rucks during that time.

When and why did Mark Stuart quit the band and how did you get in touch with Bob Irving? Was he a hired gun only to record the album?

When it was time to record the album our management felt we needed a more solid drummer. I suppose we all agreed with that which was hard, because Mark, or "Jock" as he was known, was a good friend to us and had been the source of many hysterical moments on tour. Dave Irving was/is the drummer in Sad Cafe, a great British band that our management co-managed. He was brought in for the recording, but I think we all wished that we had him for keeps. Unfortunately he had commitments elsewhere and lived in "The North" a shadowy place that's not in London. He was/is solid as a rock. Fantastic funny bloke as well.

I guess that recording sessions for the album in famous Rockfield Studios were pretty exciting for a young musician like you were. What are your best memories about those sessions? Did they go smoothly or were there any tensions between the band and Ian Wilson who produced the album?

We were away at Rockfield for about 5 or 6 weeks, preceded by a week's pre-production at NOMIS in London. Rockfield is a farmhouse on a hillside in Wales, pretty isolated, and it was winter too. It was quite a surreal experience where time ceased to mean anything and I'd find myself recording a Hammond organ part at 4 in the morning, thinking it was 4 in the afternoon. Robert Plant turned up at one point with a crate of booze. The sessions were fairly smooth but we started to panic about time in the last week and upped our work-rate even more. Ian Wilson (the guitarist from Sad Cafe) was easy to work with. No tensions that I recall other than The Ghost of Rockfield making some cups break and light bulbs explode. Most likely vibrations from excessive volume!

The album was originally released under a strange moniker "Two Swimmers & a Bag of Jockies". As Wikipedia explains this is Cockney slang and means "two fishes and a bag of chips" (this doesn't help, to be honest). What was the idea with this title?

Our old drummer Jock used a fair bit of rhyming slang. He always used that phrase if we were near a fish and chip shop. Swimmers are fishes, and jockeys' whips are chips. We were thinking of something with a surreal but very British angle for the Japanese market. This phrase encompassed both fish and chips and rhyming slang in one go. Very British and baffling. In hindsight it takes quite a lot of explaining and something like "bowler hat" or "red bus" or "cup of tea" would have sufficed.

The album reached № 102 in the UK charts. Were you and the label satisfied with this result? How do you view the album these days? What songs are you still proud of?

I don't think I ever thought about the UK album charts, only the position in the Rock Album Chart, or Kerrang Album Chart, in which it got to about 7. To be honest, I wasn't totally satisfied with the sound of the album immediately after. I've learned to quite like most of it again after not hearing it for 20 years. I like “Tales of the Unexpected” and “Antigua” to this day. There's only one song I detest and that's “The Runner”.

After the album was released Dave Hadfield joined the band briefly but soon was replaced with Frank Noon. Would you say that Frank was the most competent drummer in the band?

Not sure who Dave Hadfield is! Frank Noon sent me his CV when he found out we were looking for a drummist. I already knew of him of course, from Def Leppard etc. Frank was a great live drummer. Him and Dave Irving were very different and a comparison is difficult!

The band played at Friday Rock Show. Were you psyched about the event? How was it to play at the show? Were you allowed to do some takes or did you have to play everything in one take?

The Friday Night Rock Show with Tommy Vance was an institution. So proud to do a session on there. We recorded at Maida Vale with Tony Wilson producing. We did it in very few takes but we were pretty well-rehearsed by that point.

The band played the song "Spiritual Guidance" at the show. Why wasn't it recorded for the album?

I think “Spiritual Guidance” was written after the album was recorded. It is something I would consider recording again, with some really massive keyboard sounds, if Paul and the others are up for it.

Can you explain the situation with the video "Live From London"? Some sources say that it was supposed only for the Swedish market. Is it correct?

It was sold to us as a one-hour special going out live to Europe,  although I heard in more recent years that the DVD has been on sale in Sweden. I think the show was quite-hastily organised. We needed to play an exact hour and were unsure we could fill that without a cover thrown in. We still timed it at less than an hour in rehearsals and just trusted to the gods that we would fill the hour on the night and would not be standing on stage in silence for 6 minutes looking at our feet until the transmission ended. I recall the producer counting down in my ear behind my keyboards just as we were playing the last chords. Result. And relief.

I have a feeling that the sound of the crowd in this video was overdubbed later. Was it really like this?

Yes. It was enhanced. But looking back on some of the other Live from London shows, the production company did this as a matter of course. I can only remember the audience being pretty enthusiastic on the night.

What are your best memories about the show in Camden Palace? Did you play enough shows after the album was released?

Our two guitarists and great buddies had just announced they were about to leave, so it was with a sense of sadness that I knew this would be one of the last times playing together. I feel we could have put together a more coherent "tour" strategy after the album release.

Is it true that Lee Slater was replaced with Janick Gers? How was it to work with him?

Frank Noon was good mates with Janick and we asked him to come and watch us at Camden Palace. Janick was a different kettle of fish to our previous guitarists. We started to write on Saturdays at my house and some of the stuff coming out was a lot more old school rock which I had always liked, but I was coming more and more under the spell of AOR, made for keyboards and vocal harmonies.

When and why did the band split up? Were you asked to join Gogmagog?

At the time I was dithering about my direction, my schoolfriend Laurie Mansworth asked if I would like to join Airrace. Now, this was much more my thing! They had just returned from a European tour with Queen. I rehearsed with them and decided I liked it. I did a couple of shows, including supporting Krokus at the Dominion, London, with the old line-up with Jason Bonham and Keith Murrell and co. I don't think Gogmagog happened immediately after this, but I was not asked.


As far as I know, after Di'Anno you and Mark Stuart joined Airrace but that didn't last long. So what happened?

Mark Stuart was long-gone and not involved in anything since he left Lone Wolf. Not long after I joined Airrace, that original line-up began to crumble, and I continued with Laurie and he drafted in Kevin Browne on bass, from Di'Anno. Laurie was/is a great songwriter and we began to build up a superb set of songs. We toured with Sad Cafe and recorded lots of demos, went through a number of changes. After a couple of years I began to become a bit disillusioned and needed a break.

What have you been up to musically since that time? What bands, projects and albums with your appearance we need to check out?

Whilst still with Airrace I played some gigs with Terraplane (which evolved into Thunder) including dates on the ZZ Top tour. I played a couple of times with some ex-rock mates including Martin Bushell of Statetrooper in an electroniky band and started recording an AOR album under my own steam which folded leaving me in debt! I left music alone for a decade or more after that but in the last few years have started writing again and plan to record an album of my own stuff in the second half of this year with some old mates.

Tell me about your career in sport. How did you discover marathon runs and triathlon? Was it a kind of challenge that you needed at some certain period of life? What are you achievements in these sports?

Not really a career as such! I loved sport since I learned to stand, athletics, football, swimming ... In later years I decided to challenge myself with triathlon which is one mother of a brutal event, mainly to give myself a bit of focus that had been missing from my life for a while. I did the London Marathon to raise money for charity and because it is such an iconic event.

How do you view your experience with Di'Anno? Do you still stay in touch with Paul and the others?

Those guys, Kevin Browne, Lee Slater and P.J. Ward and our crew Lee Tomlin, Kevin Driver and Loopy are like brothers to me. They are dotted across the globe but we meet up when we can and its like no time has passed. I'm still in touch with Dave Irving and Frank Noon and Paul D on social media and I'm sure will work with at least some of them again!